Pixiq

Good for this guy!
Rob´s last blog ..San Diego Needs Me To Take More Pictures

It is good that he knows his right, and he can totally defend it. Far from most of us know, we can take pictures of anything, as long as you’re not on a expected privacy places such as restroom or bathroom.
labor lawyer manila´s last blog ..Nine Tenths of the Law

I’m glad Mr. Beaubien stood up for his rights.

I don’t want to sound too nostalgic, but times sure have changed! In 1992, I walked inside the lobby of the new (at that time) Bank of America building here in Charlotte, NC and took many photos. Nobody said a word to me so I came back on several occasions and took more. Of course that was almost 20 years ago. I think I’ll go back down there today with a camera.

My question is, how do we tell them that “I was just following orders” is not a good enough reason to flout the rights and laws of this nation without invoking Godwin’s Law?

Since most bank guards are probably armed, ask them “And if they told you to shoot people with cameras would you do that too?”

Part of the problem is that telling people that it is against the law to shoot pictures is not against the law. You can also tell someone that it is illegal to wear a red shirt. Same for the police asking for your ID. If it is not a terry stop, you don’t have to give it to them, but there is no law that prevents them from asking.

Awesome way to call the “it’s illegal” bluff. And lovely photos as well.

I once covered a bomb threat at a high school. Tedious and boring. At some point a young teacher came up to challenge my presence. He asked me what gave me the right to be there. I answered by telling him “the Constitution.” I then directed him to the school cops to verify, which of course they did. I later found out he was a history teacher!

Glad to see he stood up for himself. I would have done the exact same thing.

Did he get a picture of the guard to top it all off?
Shane´s last blog ..Raising Your E-Commerce Sites Search Engine Rank

Calling it your job don’t make it right- Cool Hand Luke

I started out as a shooter (pro) in high school in the mid 50′s. I very quickly learned not to back down and to take a hard stance. There is nothing new about this crap.
This normally works, how ever, now and then, you will need to back it up. I still have a Nikon F with a dented prism housing where I had to go up the side of a fools head. Did not harm the camera, I do recommend Nikon’s, very tough, very reliable.

I’m so bummed. Locally nobody seems to say anything anywhere. I can pull up and shoot cops making an arrest, shoot federal buildings, take pics of police. None of it fazes them. I think I need to move further South. In all seriousness, I don’t live in a big town and it appears that photography here isn’t seen with the same fear and contempt it is in many places. Just so you know there is some sanity sprinkled here and there.

I’m not surprised to see that BoA based their architecture and aesthetics off a Randian wet dream.

I will not do business with B of A, closed all my accounts there about 15 years ago, they have unlisted fees on every thing and seam to structure there business to maximize them. Never knew just where I stood. Any day I expect to see pay toilets in the lobby with a fee for toilet paper.

As for standing your ground. Personal use is one thing, but as a pro you are expected to produce. The last thing your editor or client wants is a story. If you do not get the goods you better have two broken legs, one is not good enough.

OK OK Time out for a second please.

Have you considered this story from the security officer’s point of view?

I am a security officer and I tell you we are at the front line when it comes to customer service and we are bound by so many rules and regulations from the hiring company and the client company and my profession, and guess what we also get zero support when issues like this happen. OK please bear with me here:

Mr. Beaubien is correct if you are on a public street and you can see something from your vantage point you are free under the law to photograph what you see.

This rule is not 100% all the time, as you all know we do have sensitive sites in the US and photography is not allowed of these sites or on these sites. If you were taking photos of a military installation, I am sure your experience would be much different in deed.

Having said that, we also have acceptable social behavior. Let me ask you what would have happened if Mr. Beaubien went up to the officer in his or her booth and asked permission to take a photo first? Say that you are a student at the Community College and you are taking a photo class and you saw something appealing? By doing this, you have given legitimate reasoning for your actions, and the officer has the chance to tell you if photography is permissible or not.

Hum!!! The title of this article is: “Bank of America security guard gets schooled in American law” I guess we should change it to “Bank of America security guard gets schooled in American rudeness” After all if you were in front of me you would have reacted to a different law we also have in the US: Citizen’s Arrest.

If the branch manager was outside the branch for what ever reason and he or she told you not to take the photo, would the story be any different? In my mind, and experience, sure 100%. People do not respect security officers in general. But they fail to understand that we security officers implement the client’s policies. The officer did not wake up that morning and decided that when Mr. Beaubien will come by that he or she would tell him not to take a photo.

Be gentle and be nice and you are seen more agreeable. Thank God we had this officer on guard paying attention to the well being of a bank branch.

Go for it, call Bank of America, and call the officer’s hiring company. They will come down on him or her, to appease you but also tell BoA to give us specific policies they want us to enforce and this way you will make our lives a bit better.

Respectfully Submitted

Seemum

Seemum,
“Let me ask you what would have happened if Mr. Beaubien went up to the officer in his or her booth and asked permission to take a photo first? ”
” By doing this, you have given legitimate reasoning for your actions, and the officer has the chance to tell you if photography is permissible or not.”

First: You may need to read the post again, he was in public taking pics, so there is no need to get the rent a badges permission.
Second: That is the cool thing about the founding fathers they realized we do not need permission to do lawful activity.

“After all if you were in front of me you would have reacted to a different law we also have in the US: Citizen’s Arrest.”

What charge would you attempt your arrest under? Remember if you attempt this you may end up getting an ass whooping by the guy you attempt to restrain.

Being polite is an excellent starting point to aspire to. Sadly the guard, the person that initiated the encounter, didn’t start there. He began by stepping on the photographer’s rights. That’s not acceptable social behavior.

Also, you might want to review your state’s laws on assault, menacing, kidnapping, abduction, and unlawful restraint. I suspect that familiarity with those laws might diminish your enthusiasm for making a citizen’s arrest.

And no, I’m not terribly pleased that BoA had a guard working there. Apparently when he’s there, it threaten my/your rights as a photographer. When he’s not there BoA’s money is at risk. Between BoA’s money and the rights of photographers, I’m putting photographers first. Why should I or anyone else want to surrender even an iota of photographers’ rights just to keep BoA’s money safe?

Well done. Last April I stood up for my rights against an anti-photography bus driver who I had crossed paths with multiple times in the past. I finally had enough of her and when I caught her in a lie, I too pounced (metaphorically of course) and won.

“After all if you were in front of me you would have reacted to a different law we also have in the US: Citizen’s Arrest.”

I think a lot of people here would react to that with something we have called “justifiable force.”

“If the branch manager was outside the branch for what ever reason and he or she told you not to take the photo, would the story be any different?”

I think you’re putting that question to the wrong crowd.

I’m sure there have been people that haven’t been very nice to you when you were telling them not to do things they had every right to do. But it’s your choice to attempt to enforce policies handed down to you even when you know they’re wrong.
Michaelk42´s last blog ..Hard to let go

It is very enlightening to read these and the many points of view. I’ll add just a few comments.

This was not premeditated in any way. It was as we say in the US, a brain fart. I’ve read this site and a number of others of what goes on but I never really thought about being prepared. Usually I just walk away. If I had been thinking I would have at least taken a photo of the security guard, never mind I didn’t even take note of what company he worked for.

I was an old crank getting angry. I do have a bit of empathy for the guy. I probably scared the heck out of him marching over to his station like that. I was pretty steamed.

I spend the better part of this morning trying to locate a phone number so I could speak with someone. The number I got for the branch office inside the building basically brings you into an automated system that expects you to know the extension number of your contact. If you don’t know what you’re suppose to know it hangs up on you.

This is a big building. but I was able to find the telephone number of a VP inside the building but no one picked up.

I tried sending an email through the customer support channels. I didn’t get a confirmation that they even got it.

Then I found the telephone number for the Office of the Chairman – Customer Advocate for BoA. I actually talked to someone. Yes they do own the building but if there was a guard on duty it was not theirs because they don’t have guards on duty on Sunday. So I asked her “You mean to tell me even though you own the building that you are not responsible for security?” She said she’d check further I am awaiting their return call.

I’m thinking my only recourse will be to visit when they’re open and speak with a security guard supervisor. I’ll probably do that tomorrow morning.

Again thanks for all the comments and vists to the photos.

–Rich
BTW I have been taking photos long than most are old. You can visit here (http://tinyurl.com/ybst2dz) for a little interview I did recently

@ Seemum

Had you made your citizen’s arrest you would have been guilty of of a crime, unlawful imprisonment. My advice, don’t try it. Carlos’ name for his web site, Photography is not a Crime, almost says it all. But might I add, should I ever want to take a photograph where it is a crime to do so (the old USSR comes to mind) I sure wouldn’t do it with a $5000.00 SLR and a lens the size of a hocky stick.

I know where you can get a nice little camera that looks for all the world like a blu-tooth ear piece.

A couple responses to Seemum:

what would have happened if Mr. Beaubien went up to the officer in his or her booth and asked permission to take a photo first?

But it doesn’t matter. The photographer had permission granted by the Constitution. You don’t have to provide “legitimate reasoning” for one’s actions if you’re not breaking the law. You’re on public property taking a picture of something that’s within public view, and not infringing upon anyone’s reasonable expectations of privacy.

The person who was rude here was the guard, not the photographer.

After all if you were in front of me you would have reacted to a different law we also have in the US: Citizen’s Arrest.

Under what grounds would you effect this arrest? Rudeness?

I assume you’d also use those grounds to defend against the lawsuit you’d get slapped with.

If someone tries to place me under citizen’s arrest while I’m breaking no laws and photographing in public, then I will cooperate with them. I won’t attack them or attempt to exercise force against them. However, you can bet that I’ll be calling my attorney and initiating a lawsuit to cover such things as false arrest, wrongful imprisonment, et cetera.

If the branch manager was outside the branch for what ever reason and he or she told you not to take the photo, would the story be any different?

Nope. Once again, if you’re on public property, taking a picture of something visible in public, without infringing on a reasonable expectation of privacy, it’s legal. It doesn’t matter if it’s a security guard, the branch manager, or the Pope telling you otherwise.

I will agree with you that often security guards are at the mercy of both their employers and the company that contracts with them, often with very little support from either. However, guards should not be placed in the position of having to enforce nonexistent laws, and both security companies and companies who hire them should provide clear policies regarding this sort of thing. (For starters, something like: “Guards should not attempt to prevent legal photography.”) It would save some unnecessary grief, and reduce corporate liability.
Vidiot´s last blog ..My Ride’s Here

Good Christ, if its not the filth its some trumped up security officer. Things seem to be getting worse especially in the UK:

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2010/feb/21/photographer-films-anti-terror-...

Sad thing is the original cop isn’t even a real cop, they are bothered by a community support officer (re: civilian Statsi/KGB/Brown shirt). I would have told her to go fuck herself. Glad I have a nice heavy Nikon. I’m just waiting for someone to get smacked, its gonna happen, someones gonna lose it.
Jody´s last blog ..The Snitch in Your Pocket

Here’s yet another one

http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/video/2009/dec/15/police-terrorism
Jody´s last blog ..The Snitch in Your Pocket

Jody,

The Guardian has stubbornly refused to allow other sites to embed their videos, even though they are clearly watermarked and credited to the Guardian as they should be.

So I am stubbornly refusing to mention the video in a main post because I prefer the videos I discuss on this blog to be embedded.

In the mean time, readers can check it out by clicking on the link in your comment.

“Dissent, after all, is the purest form of patriotism.”

That’s only under Republican administrations. As soon as the Democrats get in, they discover that “anti-government rhetoric” is a threat to civilization, or democracy, or something.

I don’t know if this has been dumb luck or not, but the two incidents I have had with police were strange. An incident in Seattle with the building guard attracted the police from across the street, the cops told the guard to go back in his building and leave us alone or be arrested. The other, in a foreign country, the cop wanted to pose.. and hire him when he got off duty as a tourist guide.

Carlos,

I think the Guardian is trying to protect their ever smaller market share, it’s to bad some media does not understand society has moved on, perhaps some day they will to. Thanks for this site, it’s great to see these stories get exposure.

“Dissent, after all, is the purest form of patriotism.”

Hmmmm… it was while a Republican was in office. Now…I’m not so sure.

[rolling virtual eyes]

I’ll guarantee Security has got their own pics (or most likely footage) of say, Mr./Mrs. Photographer taking taking pics of said property. Smile, your on candid camera. Hmmm… Let’s see, things to do today: Catch the train, drop off books at the library, buy lunch, drive the low paid security guard at the bank crazy and make him feel like his job is meaningless, pick-up dinner, make some prank phone calls (kiddin’) & go to bed. So sad!

This has to do with mine Benefits with Gannett ,I have w/c gannett Since STATE OF HAWAII BECOME 5O th state ,since 2001 ,i got sick at time i wasnt 65 yrs old even then i never collected work compention since the i work for company ,UNION I HAD PAID VERY WEEK FROM MY PAY CHK ,NOT ONCE THEY NEVER HLP AT ALL.FOR UNION DUES THAT I PAID THRU YEARS 40yrs of life that time they cant give back mine family came 2nd my job always came frist,my friends came and went dead ,I would like know where mine money went A.I.G WITH I HAD PAID THRU YEARS ,
THIS COMES WHEN MINE WIFE NEED MONEY NOW .THIS IS EMERGENCY SHE WILL BE CHECKING IN EMERGENCY AND SHE SIGN AUTHORIZATION TO RELASE ALL IN FORMATION MEDICAL WISE.
SINCE SHE PART OF MINE BENEFITS ,
I WOULD LIKE KNOW WHAT HAPPEN ,THRU ALL YEARS NOT PERSON IS SAYING NOTING,WHAT GOING ON
SOCIAL SECURITY NEVER RELEASE MINE STATEMENT SINCE I STOP WORKING
THEY AGAINST LAW YET THEY CLAIM I OWN $1,300 w/c State own me more they can handel chk your emeolyee that work for state how hell there ticket has been paid when all mine life time work 40yrs plus hold 30yrs part
job all cause i force to pay I.R.S. WHEN THEY OWN ME FACT IS I OVER PAID F.IC.A W/C MY UNDERSTANDING THEY SHOULD PAID ME BACK LONG TIME AGO,I DONT KNOW WHO IS RESPONSIBLE THIS IS ACT EVIL ,I CANT SEE WHO HAS BLACK HEART ,NO MERCY ,NO COMPENSION,THEY MADE MINE CHILDREN WORK SINCE CHILD WHEN OTHERS WERE PLAYING AND HAVEING FUN,PURE EVIL MAY GOD HAVE MERCY UPON THERE SOUL.

Not applicable to the original story, as the bank was closed when the pictures were taken, but seems relevant considering many of the comments. Would a bank not fall under “reasonable expectation of privacy”. It is a place where you deal with confidential bank account numbers, pins, personal financial information, and possibly other private information for identification purposes. Just curious what everyone thinks, but if privacy is expected inside, then a picture through the windows of the bank could fall in the same category as a picture through someone’s bedroom window.