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Why don’t you ever single out the good cops?

Carlos,

You know cops only get press when they do wrong. They don’t report this stuff about normal people, only cops.

Well I think we do poing out what the good cops do also.

Rafa

This is a place to consolidate information on police officers and deputies that infringe on photographers rights.

Is this site becoming a ‘bash the cops’ site for every police misconduct?

The police do a tough job, and yes there are a few bad eggs in the pile, but the majority do a fantastic job.

It would be a shame to see this website turn into a ‘hate the police’ site instead of the well documented, and informative, site I believe it to be about the struggles of photographers and their rights.

John: don’t be a cop apologist.

Police et al are the ones infringing on the rights of photographers.

and here’s a good cop story:
Once i was lost and then i asked a cop where to go and he gave me directions. He was polite. The end.

but carlos… these are just “isolated incidents”

lol

You should change the name of your website to “sour grapes”

Why don’t you write about what non-criminals do when they’re not being criminals?

Yes, that’s sarcasm.

For a police officer, who carries a taxpayer-funded weapon and draws a taxpayer-funded salary to protect the public, to be the very one to commit a crime is a serious breach of public trust. To operate without a proper review process is to deny that police officers are human and taints the good cops as well, something that makes it more difficult for them to do their job.

Oh, and it does make sense, absolutely, to write about people who violate their professional duty: An accountant who embezzles? That’s news. A firefighter who is an arsonist? That’s news. A journalist who plagarized? That’s news. A cop who is a criminal. ABSOLUTELY that’s news.

B wrote: “An accountant who embezzles? That’s news. A firefighter who is an arsonist? That’s news. A journalist who plagarized? That’s news. A cop who is a criminal. ABSOLUTELY that’s news.”

Very well said!

When did this site become an Anti-Cop site? Rather than a PRO Photography site?
I’m a professional photographer and always appreciate the cases brought to light on this site. However, I’m not thrilled with the recent post of simply pointing out the misconduct in general of police across the board.
Let’s keep this about photography and first amendment rights rather than point out a few bad apples that are spoiling the bunch.

So highlighting stories where cops have been accused or convicted of criminal acts makes me “anti-cop” or a “cop basher”?

It is this type of apologist attitude why so many cops feel they are above the law.

It reminds me of the people who accused me of hating my country because I spoke out against the Iraq War.

If we hold cops to higher standards and make sure these stories get the publicity they deserve, then maybe some cops would think twice about abusing their authority.

This site is a First Amendment/photography right but let’s not forget I started this site because I was arrested by a group of cops who abused their authority.

And cops who abuse their authority against photographers are no different than cops who abuse their authority in other manners, as in the stories highlighted in this post.

I didn’t make any of those stories up. I didn’t even write them.

But I’m sure as hell not going to ignore them either.

Carlos, most of the stories are about cops who are only accused of wrongdoing, and unlike you, have not been convicted of any crime. They are entitled to their day in court just like you. If they are guilty they deserve what they get.

One of the stories, the drunk cop talking about the shooting victim, isn’t even a crime. As a matter of fact it’s a story about a man who is being punished by his employer for exercising his freedom of speech, his first amendment right, which is what your website is supposed to be all about. Or do you only believe in the 1st amendment when it fits your agenda?

Jones,

While it is not illegal to mock a murder victim, it is unprofessional.

It would be no different than if I were working for a newspaper and wrote about a cop getting shot, then later getting caught on video making fun of that cop.

While it’s not illegal, it would sure affect my credibility as a professional journalist.

I really don’t understand why people expect these stories to be covered up for the weak reasons you provided.

The newest story on your police misconduct board is a story about “A federal appeals court has ruled that Nashville police can continue to release arrest records of people before they were convicted”

Nashville police are posting mugshots of people arrested for prostitution and you think that belongs under police misconduct. You theink the police trying to deter prostitution is misconduct?

If one of the officers that arrested you were arrested for anything I think his mugshot would be plastered all over your site.

While it is not illegal to mock a murder victim, it is unprofessional.

So if somebody is unprofessional they lose their first amendment rights?

Where did I say that, Jones?

The newest story on your police misconduct board is a story about “A federal appeals court has ruled that Nashville police can continue to release arrest records of people before they were convicted”

I am not the one compiling the news feed

I am not the one compiling the news feed

Your posting them

When an airplane crashes, why doesn’t the news talk about all the airplanes that don’t crash?

When a bridge collapses, why don’t we talk about all the bridges that didn’t collapse?

When a shooter kills people in a school, why don’t we talk about all the people who DIDN’T shoot anybody?

When soldiers torture people in Gauntanimo, why don’t we talk about all the soldiers that DON’T torture somebody?

I hope the above commenters realize how stupid they sound.

Jones,

Then let’s stick to debating about the stories that I am posting. Not the ones that I am not posting.

Regarding the story you mentioned about Nashville, I agree with the federal ruling because it falls on the side of a more open government rather than a closed government.

I personally don’t believe the arrests of prostitutes and their johns is that newsworthy, but apparently people find that interesting.

In fact, I believe prostitution should be legalized but that is another topic altogether (although I would love to hear what you guys think about that).

So yes, I side with the federal ruling because if you start sealing arrest records, then when a big arrest happens, one that is actually newsworthy, you will be denied the records.

I’ll tell you why people are sick of cops. It’s because the corruption has gotten so out of hand that your average citizen has to worry about being victimized by these assholes. Instead of going after criminals these parasites go after hard working citizens who they know will not give them trouble. I guarantee you that all they see us as are dollar signs.

In my experience, the vast majority of cops are good guys. They care about their jobs, but as Clint above alludes to, it’s only the wrecks that you hear about.

The memorial service for the three Pittsburgh officers recently killed in the line of duty drew little attention.

http://www.wpxi.com/news/19126206/detail.html#-

Police stopping a batshit crazy driver hell bent on escaping, no matter who’s lives she puts in danger made the local news, but since the police didn’t beat her when they pulled her, kicking and screaming, from the wreckage of her car, it won’t attract national attention.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JoKZbOSvVa0&feature=channel

And what about this cop? I love him. At a large protest, he’s not telling people they can or can not do things, he’s just telling them to be safe and have fun. He’ll never get an award for this work, but he should.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=k9yIBOnbJjY

Yes, bad cops ARE like plane wrecks; they are the ones you hear about. But like plane wrecks, they are the ones that cause the most damage. We can’t just roll our eyes at them and giggle about ‘boys being boys’. There are good cops, out there and they outnumber the bad ones. As long as we differentiate between them and let the good cops know we respect them, the bad ones will become more and more isolated.

So yes, nail the bad ones. Put them on the spot. But make sure to tell the good ones that you are thankful for them and your respect the job that they do.

At least that’s what I try to do.

Very sensible, Simon.

FYI regarding Simon Jester post #22

The video clip posted of, “And what about this cop? I love him” involved LAPD Sergeant Wayne K. Guillary.

Sergeant Guillary, based on his own personal account, had the unfortunate experience of being a victim of police misconduct.

In his pursuit of seeking what he believes would be justice, he is running up against a Blue Wall.

From the small window into his character based on the YouTube clip, his 27 year law enforcement career, his rank of police Sergeant and reading his version of his experience, I get the sense his claim has at least some merit. I can’t see him making wildly exaggerated claims.

http://www.pe.com/localnews/inland/stories/PE_News_Local_W_wrace07.2a1d2...

http://www.pe.com/localnews/publicsafety/stories/PE_News_Local_S_guillar...

Damn, Karl, that’s a crazy story.

How did you make the connection between the video and the articles?

From different sites that covered the incident including Five Before Midnight/River City CopWatch http://rivercitycopwatch.blogspot.com/

The problem with the good cops, is they aren’t publicly outraged by these stories. Their culture doesn’t allow them to criticize other cops. If I heard some outrage expressed, I would trust these cops more. Instead I feel their tacit support of the behavior. Until they differentiate themselves, they are ALL responsible for these bad deeds.

Here is another website that hopes to improve police behavior: http://www.policeabuse.com/

Not all cops are bad.

A lot of people who have problems with police in general are the ones who get pulled over a lot, or arrested a lot. Now, sometimes (at least with the arrests), granted, there are economic and geographical reasons for getting arrested a lot – but generally, being an asshole and then saying the people who are putting you in check are assholes is just silly.

Carlos had all of his charges dropped except for one, and that should have been dropped too, obviously.

I’ve pleaded nolo contendre to a couple of crimes in my past, does that mean i don’t have the right to free speech (THE SAME RIGHT CARLOS HAS), jones? Just because i was convicted of a crime? Or, like always, is this just another example of the fact that you have no idea how to argue?

Furthermore, if you don’t know how RSS feeds work, you need to look them up. Carlos does not control the RSS content. His webhost/server merely aggregates the content FOR posting. There’s no way to say “don’t post anything that has to do with cops in new brunswick ohio” or anything like that.

I’m beginning to think that you’re an ignorant troll. I’ll withhold saying that outright for now.

by the by, jones, et al should also look up “No true scotsman fallacy”

It’s a common apologist stance in arguing about stuff like this. If you find yourself saying “what about all the good cops” you’re missing the point. Truly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/No_true_Scotsman

This story plus thread is important. It’s a chance to zoom in on the key issue. There’s a complaint that apologists often make about this kind of thing. I’ve mentioned the complaint before, and I see that the apologists are out in full force to push it here. The thread is bristling with them. In my opinion, the complaint is nonsense, because it misses the point.

The people I’m about to quote seem sincere. I don’t question that. I’m simply tired (quite tired after decades) of hearing things that miss the point.

ClintJCL said, “When an airplane crashes, why doesn’t the news talk about all the airplanes that don’t crash?”

John Hartley said, “Is this site becoming a bash the cops site for every police misconduct? The police do a tough job, and yes there are a few bad eggs in the pile, but the majority do a fantastic job.”

Prichert said, “Let’s keep this about photography and first amendment rights rather than point out a few bad apples that are spoiling the bunch.”

Rafa said, “Why don’t you ever single out the good cops?”

Simon Jester, said “In my experience, the vast majority of cops are good guys. They care about their jobs, but as Clint above alludes to, it’s only the wrecks that you hear about… So yes, nail the bad ones. Put them on the spot. But make sure to tell the good ones that you are thankful for them and your respect the job that they do.” (I don’t question the last part at all.)

Apologists of this type frequently use phrases like unfairly tarred by the same brush (not used so far in this thread), a few bad eggs, a few bad apples, etc. It’s one of the standard arguments.

As a side note, it’s interesting to see that “jones” (who appears to be a retired LEO, though that’s only a guess) hasn’t raised the old a few bad apples argument so far, unless I’ve missed it. However, he’s also missed the point.

The bad apples aren’t the point. Peter nailed it in post 27. The point is that there’s a “code”.

The “code” says that bad things don’t happen, or they’re not important, or it’s wrong to talk about them, or the victims are “lowlifes”. For example, “she was asking for it”, or “he was black, so the sports drink in his hand might have been a gun”, or “she had a tramp-stamp”. When something bad happens, it’s standard operating procedure for the police and their apologists to make excuses, to cover it up, to make it go away. In fact, if you’re a LEO, and you talk about issues like this, unfortunate things might happen to you at work. This isn’t a rare or isolated thing. It’s every day. “jones” (and Ziggy, if you’re out there), do you deny this simple fact?

The “code” is a cancer that eats away at justice. It can’t be ignored. Therefore, the “bad cop” stories can’t be ignored. The “good cops” defend the “bad cops” and cover-up for them. So regrettable incidents continue to happen.

If the police (and the apologists) were to do away with the “code”, stories about individual officers would be nothing more than that. The actions of the “bad apples” wouldn’t reflect on the profession as a whole. However, if you look at some of these things and the way that they’re handled now, it should be obvious that we need to shine a light on every incident of this type. For Pete’s sake, there’s been two “throwdown” (planted weapon) stories recently, that’s one of the worst things that a cop can do, and nothing at all has happened to the officers involved. The “code”, the thing that says that things like sodomy with a plunger (think about the splinters), “throwdowns”, theft, coverups, and outright murder are O.K., has got to go.

Is this “cop bashing” ? I don’t think so. Serpico, the anti-”code” cop who’s discussed in a recent posting on this site, is one of my heroes. And BTW “jones”, he’s a hero to some LEOs as well.

Note to “genewitch”: You said to “jones”, “I’m beginning to think that you’re an ignorant troll. I’ll withhold saying that outright for now.”

“jones” is neither ignorant nor a troll. Trolls are insincere posters who are trying to be disruptive. “jones” appears to be a retired LEO (or similar type) who’s genuinely fed up with what he believes to be bias and ignorance on the part of people who “don’t know what it’s like” (just a guess at his thoughts).

Additionally, it’s unfair to criticize people for things like ignorance related to RSS feeds. Yes, “jones” was presumptuous and I’ve criticized people for that myself. Posters should look at what’s actually happening before they weigh in. However, I’m intelligent and I’m still going to make that kind of mistake myself occasionally.

I’ve always wanted to engage sincere LEOs and apologists. “jones” isn’t exactly an expert at debate (no offense intended). However, he’ll improve over time. Additionally, sincere people are important to forums of this type.

Well it seems voice beat me to it again
The people who appologize for what cops do usualy dont get that the cops answer to the public PERIOD. they need to be held to a higher standered all the way around and to be honest if a cop / sheriff / fedral agent is caught breaking the law they need to recive double or triple the punishment. AND if they cant handle it GET THE FUCK OUT OF THE JOB please dont call carlos a cop basher i have seen sevral articals here that he congratulates cops on doing a fine job others who are caught he throws them to the wolves ( US ) and thank god he does now i know what to look for in my officers around here.

One of my favorite articles was about the cop on a bike.

That wasn’t cop bashing!

Nice blog, Carlos. There used to be a blog called badcopnews that had news feeds of incidents nationwide. They put up about 15 stories a day. Every. Day. Too bad that site went down.

Photography is not a crime indeed. At least not yet…..

Police Officers are suppose to be held to a higher standard..if anyone knows what molesting a 12 year old can get you, dont you think its a cop? The one mistake the naysayers of “bad cop stories” fail to recognize is “YOU PAY THESE GUYS” A portion of every dime JOE BLOW makes ,goes to ensure these guys have a good standard of living, health benefits and now a Retirement that would choke a horse.

Can all the average citizens say they get that? Oh and the “ever-loving and faithful “cops are under stress” argument…that one slays me.

They have no idea what stress is in this present economy, they still have their paychecks, benefits and new take home cars. I have never been one to begrudge a police officer his due,
But for God’s sake..If there is one segment of a succesfull society that should know the ramifications for unlawful behavor, isnt it the POLICE?
I am rather sick of PAYING for Questionable and or illegal behavor.
In the big picture I know I couldnt be the only one..

What slays me is the cries of “We pay your salary”, most of the time that claim comes from people who are living off the government.

In case you forgot genius “we the hard-working smucks” pay the government who pay the people “who are living off the Government”

Take it to a completed thought , before you post..

I’m sorry, I didn’t have time to complete my thought, I had to get to the bank to cash my pension check. BTW thanks for the raise, I get an automatic 4% cost of living increase in my pension every year, even in this economy.

Your a perfect ambassador for perpetuating the condemnation the public has for LE..what was your point? Why did you bother to post? Has LE left you with such contempt for the general public that you feel compelled to come onto a website and make comments to the very people who your brethren or maybe you have victimized? Your incognito here, can you honestly say with a straight face that (some) Law enforcement don’t behave badly towards an unsuspecting public?
Your Pension my friend, is soon to go the way of the Carpenters Union Pension, the Pilots Pension, and a myriad of other so-called bullet-proof Pensions. Its economically not sustainable. Plus the backlash of the American Payer is gonna put a big dent in your 4% in just a matter of time.
I know this is a foriegn concept to you..But you just remember “Jones” the only thing you come into this world with is your NAME and in the end, thats all you will take out. Its amazing what people will say or express when they dont have to attach their NAME to it.
Its rather indictative of the type of man you are towards your family, your wife, your children and your neighbors behind closed doors when you think no one is watching. You dont sound like a very honorable man to me. Thats not an impression that many people want to impart, even ones behind screen names.

Bad cops are like sex offenders…they go to the wall for each other no matter what the offense was..amazing

I don’t think law enforcement acts badly towards the unsuspecting public, some might act badly toward unsuspecting criminals but I have little sympathy for them.

I like the general public, too bad I didn’t get to deal with them that much, most of the time we are dealing with the general criminals.

I’m not too worried about my pension just yet, but believe me I am aware of the economy and the possibilities but fortunately for me I do not depend on my pension for living. As a matter of fact most of my pension is going toward putting my kids through college so maybe they should be thanking you to.

Note to Valerie Parkhurst: I read your original post on the other thread and I understand where you’re coming from. In fact, see my response to you on that thread, the posting about recording audio when you go outside from now on. Please pay attention to the warning that the recording device shouldn’t be something that you’ll need to reach for.

That said, I’ve been trying to engage “jones” for a little while now and I believe that I know what he’s thinking.

Sarcastic exchanges can be enjoyable for the participants, and sometimes they’re fun to watch, but you’re not taking advantage of the fact that you’ve already gone public with your situation. You’re qualified to debate specific points because you’ve got some experience with those points. Talk to “jones” about issues as seen from that perspective. Otherwise, he’ll believe that you’re simply ranting.

Note to “jones”: You said, “What slays me is the cries of We pay your salary, most of the time that claim comes from people who are living off the government”.

You know that’s a false statement. Statements of that type make you look silly.

As a side note, you mentioned a “pension check”. This seems to confirm the guess I’ve posted elsewhere, which is that you’re a retired LEO.

You could have addressed Ms. Parkhurst’s main point, the one regarding payment, without mocking her with the “4%” raise comment. You’re coming across as a stereotype, exactly the kind of person that Ms. Parkhurst believes LEOs to be (and she does have some justification for feeling as she does).

“jones”, you’ve been unwilling to interact with me, but perhaps you’ll take a sincere suggestion. Why don’t you do exactly as I told Ms. Parkhurst to do and talk about things more specifically from your perspective? You’re a retired LEO, you’ve got some experience, you should be able to do better than this.

Valerie, as a “hard working smuck” may I ask what do you do?

Note to “jones”: You were addressing Ms. Parkhurst. However, I can’t resist the temptation to offer a comment. “jones”, Ms. Parkhurst comes across a little bit as though she’s you on the other side.

I am a nurse .

To any Law Enforcement here:

In some other professions where “liability” is a factor, there are continuing education courses that are mandated by each individual state.

The one common thread that seems to tie many “misconduct cases” together is the “mis-interpretation” of the Law.
In my state, if you ask 5 different police officers about the “castle doctrine” for instance, you will get 4 different versions. Not to mention that there has been ammendments to the doctine just in the past couple of years.
Now, if you factor in the definitions of various laws along with any “changes” of those laws, along with a potential “cowboy mentality” I would venture that the liability may go up for a city if the officers themselves arent privy or up to date about a certain statute (s) ..Another words, if all officers are only required to do “range time” I would think their capacity to enforce the laws as they are written leaves too much up to personal discretion.
In another words after reading and reading and reading about citizens horror stories and then the damages done to those citizens and the hoops they had to jump thru subsequently due to the police who obviously were not educated in the legal or civil rights of those citizens, it would just seem to make sense that police with all the power they “prescribe to themselves” would have some mandatory class time in a subject that so obviously enter mingles with their job description. No Yes.. sorry its early and I know I rambled on that post.

Here’s the video of Drunk cop mocking shooting victim: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6kIH5EQeCSc

Here is video of cops shooting rubber bullets at woman protester

and these guys call themselves MEN

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=G63FEamhpA0

Hey Mel, I would be curious how that cop made it home that night????

There are police officers, and then there are ‘cops’ and there is definately a difference. The “would-be-criminals “adage seems to apply to the cop at the bar in Erie, making fun of a dying victim. Probation WITH pay is a laugh….a paid vacation…more like a pat on the back then a punishment, one I never understood. Without pay would be appropriate. And if he’s ‘aquitted’ after the ‘investigation’ (blue protecting blue…big deal, right?) then they can give him back pay. In the meantime, if he is found guilty (how can you dispute the video?) then it would be a tad difficult to take back what they paid him while they were investigating. So don’t pay him. Simple.

Whadda world. And it’s only going to get worse. The unemployment rate makes people crazy, and the cops need to show even more self control then normal. And the criminal/cops don’t have the capacity to do that any more then the criminals themselves.

And the good cops? They have to be even better…and there are a lot of good ones out there, I know. Though you wouldn’t know it from this site.