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How much should you charge for a photograph?Fullerton Commissioner (And Former Cop) Believes It's Illegal To Record Him In Public
Fullerton City Council member Don Bankhead, who is facing a recall for his refusal to speak out against the cops who beat a homeless man to death earlier this year, believes he has an expectation of privacy in public.
The politician who spent more than 30 years as a Fullerton police officer before spending another 23 years as a city council member was confronted in a parking lot by a citizen with a video camera last week.
Bankhead tells her he doesn’t appreciate her taking his picture.
She tells him she doesn’t appreciate what he did to her at Ralph’s on a previous occasion – whatever that may have been.
The two debate about the legalities of video recording him in public for a few seconds before he tells her, “I don’t want to see that published.”
So naturally, I will do just that.
Please send stories, tips and videos to carlosmiller@magiccitymedia.com
Comments
There you are kids, anyone can grow up to be a cop or city/county official.
You don't need to know pesky laws and regulations. Once you're in the club, they don't apply to you!
He did seem to make his (idiotic) argument calmly, though.
"Well, I still have certain public/private rights..."
Not when you're walking down a public street, J. Edgar.
way to publish brother!
Thank GOODNESS we are safe from that dangerous man they beat to death with Maglites. ( Those sure are well-made flashlights, AND they are made right down there in Ontario, Ca., the home of police repression and violation of Constitutional rights. Let's keep Ahmerika' Ahmurkan'!)
Of course, as Johny Law will tell us, not all cops protect other cops. Good thing we're safe from that !
And Bergman...in advance...fuck off.
Fuck off?
What the hell is wrong with you? Why do you hate freedom of expression and honest debate so much? What exactly are you afraid of, that you have to preemptively swear at me for the "crime" of stating my libertarian opinions in the past?
I disagree with JL a lot more than I agree with him, but apparently all it takes is one post pointing out that ad hominem attacks add nothing useful to a discussion to categorize me in your neo-nazi mind as One Of Them.
So go fuck yourself, fascist.
(Carlos, I keep flagging posts where posters abuse other posters, and they never get removed or anything. I've decided to fight fire with fire, I apologize for helping the above example of cranial-rectal inversion lower the quality of your blog).
Oh don't get your knickers in a twist; I wasn't swearing AT you, just telling you in advance to go away.
I just don't like you, that's all.
You rose so eagerly to the occasion the few times I tried to bait JL that I couldn't help but laugh at your pomposity.
If you're really a Libby, relax - I vote straight Libby.
And I don't think it's really ad hominem; look it up.
JL represents everything bad, perhaps evil, as he knows better but does wrong, working as he does, in the belly of the beast, so to speak. Most cops are working there, though they will never know it, probably because, as Upton Sinclair wrote: It's difficult to get a man to understand something if his salary depends upon his not understanding it." But that's being charitable; I actually feel that the real reason...no, that's not it. I knew-and know some cops. My work has put me in the general area of many, and the so-called 'good' ones, those not psychotic, or drunks, or pervs, or sadists, or just plain mean, nasty dudes,I can count on one hand, And that is not bragging, it's just so fucking sad words can't describe it. Though I sometimes still try.
I'm actually a person who believes more fervently in freedom than anyone I have met, and who regrets the state of freedom now more than he can say.
I absolutely love freedom of expression, and I don't think for a moment that anything I say will ever deter you-or anyone else-from anything, and I never thought or said you committed a 'crime' or anything even remotely like one, and I don't consider you a neo-nazi. Just a pompous ass at worst. No problem.
Nothing we do or say here or anywhere else will make the slightest difference to any fascist cop or politician anywhere, ever.
But I do respect Carlos immensely, as he is fighting the good fight; he's got Cajones with a capital C, and he's pretty damn good at what he does. So if he feels that I'm detracting from the forum here, I'll quit it.
Otherwise it's just a feud between two overblown armchair activists.
Breathe, Bergy!
Even a stopped clock is right twice a day. You and JL both have that in common. You're both almost always wrong, and yet, every now and then, one of you raises a valid point.
Agreeing with that valid point does not mean I am on your or JL's side. It simply means you or JL occasionally raises a good point.
Telling me to fuck off or not bother to comment simply betrays your true nature. You don't want discussion or to discover truth, you just want a soapbox and an undivided audience to spew at. Am I wrong? Then perhaps you should consider what message you are communicating VS what message you intend to communicate.
I suggest you take a good, hard look at your own ideas of what liberty is. Because the problem you seem to have is a belief that you're right and everyone else is wrong. That being wrong, people should shut up and go away. That's not libertarianism, that's authoritarianism with you as the authority. You vote libertarian? Good for you. Too bad you don't appear to believe in it.
"...you just want a soapbox and an undivided audience to spew at. Am I wrong?"
Yes.
Well, THAT is ironic!
WayUpNorth expresses his opinion about Bergman, and Bergman responds by claiming that WayUpNorth hates freedom of expression!
I'd love to know what he did to her. She probably didn't say to avoid a slander suit as of course he would deny it. The fact that he said "I didn't take your picture", and not, "I didn't do anything" makes me think he did something obnoxious.
She got him back pretty good, he really didn't like being a star in her little video show.
I have decided that if someone say what you are doing is illegal, my response is "if you REALLY believe that then call the cops, I'll wait, but when you are wrong, I'm gonna file a complaint with that cop for harrasment. So you decide."
Its funny as hell when people say "you can't do X", and they don't have a clue.
The problem with calling the cops is that often they don't have the slightest clue themselves about what the law is, especially when it comes to such things as photography in public. For the average cop, it's a relatively obscure facet of the law that they don't deal with on a regular basis. And that means that, more often than not, they'll get it wrong.
I'm not excusing cops for not understanding that citizens have a right to take photos and record video in public, but it seems that a good many of them are not versed in this particular area of the law, and many of those who are versed in it seem to deliberately ignore it.
That is because they have better things to do than to worry about whiny photographers.
@Law Man
Yeah, pittly things like the Constitutional Rights you're supposed to protect... assuming you really are a Law Man.
What, precisely, is more important to a person than obeying his/her sacred sworn oath?
Anyone who has a higher priority than the oath has no business wearing the uniform, lest they disgrace everyone who has ever sworn that oath.
Citizens with cameras exposing our corrupt employees on a daily basis.
Our forefathers would be proud.
The stnad I always take is I will not delete any photos, PERIOD. IF I was breaking the law then you have technically ordered me to destroy evidence, since I haven't you are ordering me to destroy my property, either way you are demanding an illegality..
A statement like "you might want to chat with your watch commander before you arrest me, because once you do consequences are attached. And the law doesn't support your actions." Cops get threatened with lawsuits all the time by people. giving them the chance to prevent their mistake beforehand is a friendly way of saying you are about to get sued and have basically no chance of winning.
In the end I just want these stupid people to understand wher ethey are and that just because they don't want something to happen doesn't mean they have the right to prevent it..
Perhaps one of these people who are currently suing takes the position that as part of the settlement that the cops MUST accept wrongdoing in this case. But far to often its the payout that is most important.
I still think its funny thst Carlos basically made a judge recuse himself after his idiotic ruling and statements were over-turned on appeal.
Having a wingman handy with a second camera makes considerable sense. But here's a fun scenario to contemplate:
Many states permit citizens to arrest other citizens. Some require it be for a felony, others permit it for any crime a cop would have cause to make an arrest for. For example, Washington state follows British common law traditions (anything not explicitly banned is legal), and permits citizen's arrest for misdemeanors that breach the peace as well as any felony. Nowhere in Washington law that I can find (and I've done a lot of looking) is there a ban on making such an arrest for a violation of federal law.
Many states have similar legal traditions, and very few of them specify citizen's arrest only for state-level crimes.
So what if a cop gets in your face and demands rights he lacks be respected, and in the process denies you rights you actually have?
Title 18, Chapter 13, Sections 241 & 242 of the U.S. Code make it a federal crime to deprive anyone of their civil, statutory or constitutional rights by means of official authority under color of law. This is a law that a private citizen cannot ever break, they lack the official authority. Every kind of official authority that CAN break this law comes with at least a little qualified immunity. It's fair to say that legal immunity CAN'T apply to a law only those with immunity can break.
Section 242 is for lone actors. Simply expressing official disapproval of exercise of rights in an attempt to discourage them is worth a year in federal prison and/or $1,000 fine. Threat of deadly force (even if deadly force isn't actually used, threat of deadly force is enough), for example if an officer puts his hand on a holstered weapon while making an illegal demand, elevates the punishment to 10 years in federal prison and/or a $10,000 fine. If anyone is killed, sexually abused or the official's victim is a minor, the punishment jumps to execution or life without parole in federal prison and/or a $100,000 fine.
Section 241 is the conspiracy to violate 242. All penalties start off one step more severe, so simple verbal discouragement by a group of officials, or a single officer being backed to the hilt (silently) by his partner qualifies. If either one rests his/her hand on a weapon while doing so, both are then guilty of committing a capital crime.
Every state that has citizen's arrest, considers it valid for capital crimes. Most that have citizen's arrest, consider it valid for felonies. A few extend to misdemeanors. Threatening deadly force while committing a misdemeanor-level crime is a breach of the peace.
Your wingman then places the cop under citizen's arrest for trampling on your rights. Legally speaking, it'd be a fascinating case to watch.
I believe???? that this lady along with some others were collecting petitions for his and two other council members recall. Bankhead called the store, Ralphs a division of Kroger, to have her thrown off the property. When thse store said no, he called the owner of the center, political connections, and got him to either call the cops or had the leasing agent tell her to leave. I guess since this lady is still alive, it must have been the leasing agent :)
Wouldn't that, technically speaking, be election tampering?
they stayed and the cops knew it was wrong and went away. any place normally open to the public with more than one leaseholder is open to political activity of this sort. a Supreme Court decision I beleive.
Uncle Sam is putting teeth into the process of arresting people with cameras:
http://naturalborncitizen.wordpress.com/2011/12/05/martial-law-the-fix-i...
They already accuse us of being terrorists. Soon they will be able to back that up with indefinite 'detention'.
One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. George Washington was considered a traitor and terrorist by the British, after all.
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