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How much should you charge for a photograph?Fullerton Police Accused Of Confiscating Yet Another Camera After Homeless Beating
Another citizen is claiming that Fullerton police confiscated her camera in the wake of the Kelly Thomas beating death.
This makes at least three cameras seized from citizens whose content has yet to see the light of day.
And that’s not counting the city-owned surveillance camera that prosecutors refuse to release on the basis that it could taint witness testimony – never mind the fact that they’re already interviewed all the witnesses.
However, Kelly Thomas’ dad, the retired Orange County Sheriff’s deputy, has filed a claim that he intends to file a lawsuit, which would give him legal access to the video considering it is “evidence.”
And he’s been one of the main proponents of seeing that video released.
Meanwhile, Friends of Fullerton continue to provide the newest info on this case, including the two videos included with this story.
The top video is an interview with a witness to the incident that claimed a police officer intimidated into handing over the film from her camera.
The second video is an interview with another witness who said that police had sat Thomas on a curb for about 20 minutes and when they moved in to arrest him, he jumped up and tried to run away.
The officers quickly pounced on him and began beating him.
Comments
I'm fairly certain that a taser being used as a blunt object against a person's head would be in the same category as a baton to the head (deadly force). It would take a pretty serious threat, such as an attempt to take an officer's gun, to justify such a thing.
Of course this is assuming that the witness is being truthful and actually saw what he thought he saw.
Truthfulness does not have anything to do with accurate perception. Someone may perceive inaccurately and still be truthful.
I expected better out of you.
@Duane
"Truthfulness does not have anything to do with accurate perception. Someone may perceive inaccurately and still be truthful."
Umm okay. And someone may be truthful but still be inaccurate. So what?
My point is that he could be lying. He could think he saw what he saw but be mistaken. Or he could be completely accurate. Basically just because this guy says the taser was used as a club doesn't mean we should take it as the gospel.
It would be very unusual for an officer to use his taser like this unless he was in condition black and forgot his training or was in vicious fight. I will be glad when the videos come out so we can stop all this speculating.
@bgwillia,
"Somehow I don't think the witnesses are guilty and they certainly aren't getting blamed for something they didn't do. So what is he gaining with a lie, prey tell?"
Attention? Revenge for a deep hatred of police? Who knows? I'm not saying 100% that he is being untruthful but people come forward with bogus witness accounts all the time for a variety of reasons.
What exactly are we arguing about here? Do you know that the witness account is accurate? I certainly don't. If you want accept it blindly even though it really doesn't seem logical, that's fine. Maybe it happened that way but it sure seems strange. I thought you were a little more skeptical than that.
That's an interesting quote from Babylon 5. I prefer one from a cop book myself:
"A. Murderers lie because they have to. B. Witnesses and other participants lie because they think they have to. C. Everyone else lies for the sheer joy of it, and to uphold a general principle that under no circumstances do you provide accurate information to a cop."
Nah I just thought it was a cool quote since you were quoting from Babylon 5 and acting like it meant something. That quote was actually written by Dave Simon in his book Homicide: A Year on the Killing Streets. It's a great book.
I think you are having a real hard time understanding me here or else you are just spoiling for an argument. IF IF IF IF IF the taser was used to strike the head, it WILL PROBABLY BE EXCESSIVE UNLESS THE OFFICER WAS IN FEAR FOR HIS LIFE.
I'm not saying that he was in fear. I'm not saying he wasn't. What I am saying is that it is so unusual for an officer to use a taser in that manner that I doubt the witness account and think that he probably is being untruthful or is mistaken about what he saw. IF IF IF IF it did happen, the officer has some explaining to do.
Please go back over my comments and read them slowly so I don't have to keep posting the same thing again and again.
@Johnny Law
What Duane is stating is that your word choices are not correct.
You are stating that the witness is lying. Two people may see the same incident, yet have two very different eye-witness accounts. Neither is lying about what they THINK they saw. The question is whether the account actually took place, or was it misinterpreted by confusion, anxiety, or shock.
I do agree with you (Johnny), this witness' accounts of the incident should not be taken at face value. Rather an account of many witnesses and the surveillance cameras need to be evaluated and the incident be pieced together.
It is scary to think that these officers beat a man into critical condition though.
@bgwilla,
"So you're saying Cicinelli, by dropping down on one knee on top of Thomas and striking him repeatedly with the butt of his Taser on Thomas’s face with the cold precision of a surgeon after his fellow cops already have wrestled and pinned Thomas to the ground with their own beatings and Thomas arms couldn't move, was in a life-or-death struggle by showing up late?"
Are you responding to me? If you are, I recommend you go back and read my comment because I said no such thing. All I am saying is that most departments equate using a blunt object to strike the head as deadly force. Since deadly force requires the officer to either be in fear of his life or the life of another, it's going to be very hard for the officer to justify it.
If you take a breath and read my comment you will see that I am saying if the taser was used as a club, it will probably be excessive unless there are some circumstances we don't know yet. Of course that is if the witness is correct in what he says he saw.
I do think it is ridiculous to say the officer was using "the cold precision of a surgeon". Would you rather the officer be screaming with rage? That's just being overly dramatic.
Very dramatic usage of the photo. Bravo for your appeal to emotion.
Once again, Johnny Law proves he is most likely not a cop and deliberately ignorant, or the world's most obtuse police officer.
bg, thanks for your enlightening observations and your patience with the wannabe ass hat.
The evidence that is already available makes it seem to me that they murdered that man. However in the interest of justice the prosecutors and the defense attorneys must keep some evidence away from those who are not involved with the case. In every high profile case there are crazies who come out of the woodwork looking for 15 minutes of fame and a book deal to cash in on. Witnesses embellish or lie.
If these officers did murder this man it is in the interest of justice, to keep some evidence hidden from the public so as not to destroy the case against the cops who may have murdered this man.
I realize that people need to be entertained. That need does not trump justice.
I hope the family of the man is successful in getting the tapes legally released, I hope they do not hurt there case. There lawyers who are competent in the law will decide that. Not the mob.
You say "entertained" I say "informed."
Unfortunately, human nature isn't about to change. That means we will continue to have abuses of power and attempts to use the color of law to cover up such abuses. It also means there will be prurient interest in such events. Living with the latter is the price we must pay to have any kind of effective check on the former.
I hope these cops never see the light of day again. They are murderers and should be treated as such. If we can turn them into examples, that will hopefully put the fear of the law into other officers. If an officer doesn't respect the laws of this land, how is he going to uphold them?
If he can file a civil rights 42USC1983 or th on used when cops are involved, he could secure the evidence immediately. If notice of claim works like in AZ, thy have 120 days to respond. They won't and then you can file the suit in state court.
You can sue in both systems.
Gimme a break on the sanitized title. Was this written by a cop? After Homeless "Beating"?? Don't you mean after Homeless "Murder"? They killed the guy. The cops tased and beat him to a bloody pulp. 6 of them, fully armed, descended on this confused defenseless guy and beat him gang-style into a coma. He died five days later when they took him off life support.
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