Pixiq

First of all, if in the backyard, not public intoxication. Furthermore, he can argue that the police did not have probable cause, as they did not perform ANY tests to ascertain level of intoxication. Finally, most statutes regarding noise complaints are challangable, at least in NY State, on lack of valid measurements as to the amount of noise. People v. Smith, et.al.

Does anyone else remember the Mountie from the WWF in the 80′s? He dressed as a Canadian Mountie and would carry a cattle prod to the ring and use it on his opponents. This was an easy way to elicit boos from the audience. This was a comical character that worked great in wrestling. I never thought it would become real life. Any pretense of TASERs being used as a substitute for deadly force seems to be gone, and it’s really just sickening.

Also, you have a typo in the headline.

Prince William County Police hire outside consultant to improve hiring policy.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lj056ao6GE&feature=related

This is why I shrug my shoulders at stories where cops are killed.

I’m waiting for feedback from the Leo sympathizers, but I may have to leave for a while. I need to to delete all my video of my backyard parties. I’m not sure what the statute of limitations is on backyard drunkenness. I could be in big trouble.

This is why I shrug my shoulders at stories where cops are killed.

Aren’t you just special. Now you feel like you’ve taken some moral high ground with that little bon mot.

Here’s a news flash. Cops who carry tasers are tasered themselves as part of their training. I’ve been tasered many times. It’s no big deal. It’s a far cry from being murdered.

So go ahead and shrug your pathetic shoulders. They’re the only thing holding up your ignorant empty head.

10-8: And soldiers are gassed and given anthrax as part of their training. Should we allow them to use mustard gas while they’re out and about in the world just because they’ve been exposed?

i mean while we’re just talking out of our asses here i figured i’d ask you a stupid question.

I tried to get Stanley Harlan on the phone about “the no big deal” tasers. But, he was still dead.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIP_KbYBNEY

Roberto, Roberto are you still dead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-dj_kQFjnq8&feature=related

These tasers are being a bit overused, I suspect … One thing Carlos, Prince William County is about an hour and a half away from where I live. It is going through big challenges because of the growth and changes in population and the lack of infrastructure to accommodate everyone. Crime has gone up astronomically in the past decade and this area was once all beautiful farmland. They have a very big gang problem (MS-13) and the old-timers in the area are at their wit’s end. This story sounds like bad judgment on the part of law enforcement but we don’t know the facts yet. I like to be fair though and PWC Police are really overwhelmed and for the most part are doing their best.

Monarga, I have to say this … that’s a pretty callous and cruel statement. I wonder whom you would call if someone were hurting your loved ones …

Well, at least, this 15 year old deserved to die by taser.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=m01Q6RIApx0&feature=related

Steveo,

How is Robert Dziekański these days? Is he still dead?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OIP_KbYBNEY

And Robert Mitchell? How is he these days?

http://www.cnn.com/2009/CRIME/05/28/michigan.taser.death/index.html

I’d keep posting these but there are more than three hundred of them. But when police kill these people. It’s not murder, is it10-8?

let’s see, just on this page police have executed more people by taser than the State of California in the last 15 years.

10-8

Aren’t you guys only tasered in the back under controlled circumstances while being held up by your buddies?

Maybe your training should also include being tased in the face, chest, stomach, genitals, and anus.

And then once your body flexes and goes rigid and you lose control of yourself your body should be allowed to slam face first into the concrete after being tased.

Maybe at that point this type of training will finally knock a little bit of sense into you and your buddies.

FYI, 10-8 is police code for “on duty.” Must be nice to get a paycheck while trolling blogs.

I’ve seen this happen locally. The police get publicly embarrassed for their mistreatment of immigrants, so they retaliate by calling in ICE. My very good friend, Suzanne McHenry is a liberty activist who, after being maliciously charged with child abuse, is currently being deported. After the prosecution’s star witness recanted and the evidence against her was discredited, AR officials then called in immigration who found she had violated an immigration rule two years ago. She awaits deportation to the UK despite the fact she has a husband and three children who are American citizens.

Here’s a news flash. Cops who carry tasers are tasered themselves as part of their training. I’ve been tasered many times. It’s no big deal.

Wait… how is that a “news flash”? I’d say plenty of us here already know it.

And furthermore, how is that relevant? 1 – you were tased in controlled circumstances, no doubt, no emotions or adrenaline running high. 2 – Police officers may get tased without ill effects, but so what? They’re not a representative cross-section of the population in terms of health. So to transfer that to the population as a whole is either stupid or deliberately deceitful on your part.

I’m sorry, I promise this is the last one. The Leos tried to kill this ex-marine sgt. war hero with tasers, but it didn’t work so they put 3 .40 caliber rounds in his chest. As of today, the last I checked, Derek Hale is still dead.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/grigg/grigg-w10.html

“Good neighbors keep their noise to themselves.”

“Polluting the commons is not a right. Our effort to reduce noise pollution is similar to other efforts to reduce pollution and reassert our collective stewardship over the commons. Whether the issue is second-hand smoke, elevated mercury levels, or ground level ozone, the strategy is to protect the environment and our health and well-being by creating an ethic of the commons.

“In seeking to advance an ethic of the commons, we first need to recognize that competing uses that exclude other uses of the commons or damaging uses that detract from other uses are not wise uses of a public good. The commons should be used in as many non-competing, non-damaging ways as possible. Noise, like many other pollutants, precludes many enjoyable uses of the commons and is not a wise use of the commons: loud late night parties, early morning garbage pick-up, or aircraft take-offs trump sleeping, reading, working, or listening to music.”

http://www.nonoise.org/

I say, keep tazing ‘em if they won’t turn down the crap.

And if you don’t turn it down after being nicely asked by Officer Friendly….earn yourself a Darwin Award.

According to Amnesty International, Tasers killed 334 people as of December, 2008.

I posted some links a while back of different police officers suing because they were hurt and seriously injured during the controlled taser ‘training’.

Wow Darwin- so my kids birthday party during the day during in my backyard gets a little loud for you and I deserve to be tased? your a winner! It was broad day light. This wasn’t at night, this wasn’t disturbing the peace.

OFFICIAL POLICE PROCEDURE

Person of Color: Check
Less than Affluent Neighborhood: Check
Taser Charged: Check

I’m not seeing the problem with this incident. All the requirements were met by the officers before Tasing the criminal.

SPH, if you have your music loud enough that Officer Friendly arrives and asks you to turn it down half a dozen times, then go ahead and earn yourself a Darwin Award by ignoring his request to not be rude to your neighbors.

Yeah, I am a winner, because I take into account my neighbor’s right to quiet enjoyment of their property.

Ol’ Grandad, who apparently had too much Ol’ Granddad, like most drunks, was loud and obnoxious.

@SPH

Never mind Darwin, if you look at its other comments you’ll see it’s just trolling. He/she/it won’t add anything to the conversation and has proven to be nothing but a time sink.

Michaelk42, do you not care about your neighbor’s right to quiet enjoyment of their property?

It’s amazing how weak minds here try to hide from the light by squealing “troll.”

Whatever. I’ve got the light, you’re the scurrying cockroach who can’t address what really happened in this situation:

1. Loud, obnoxious music from drunk neighbors.

2. Officer Friendly asks them to turn it down SIX times.

I bet you’d be calling the cops on these bad neighbors too. Just say it with me: “Tase ‘em bro!”

Those who say that tasers are ok because police officers use them on themselves is delusional. If a consumer product caused as many deaths as a taser did you can be sure that legislators would be calling for a recall and full ban on said product. Police officers are in generally good health and good physical condition and can withstand a taser. The general population is NOT. People on the street suffer from high blood pressure, various heart conditions, breathing problems, etc. and would be killed the second they are tased. A taser is nothing more than a torture and murder weapon.

I guess people like Darwin advocate the genocide of anyone who violates even the most obscure law. Most people do not even realize that noise ordinances apply during the day – in fact most municipal noise ordinances take effect after 10pm. I guess ignorance of the law is cause to execute the perp.

in my city, you can be arrested for public intoxication as long as you are in view of the public. so i do believe that was a valid charge.

now as for resisting arrest, our use of force policy dictates that if anyone resists lawful arrest by pulling away then a taser may be used to subdue the arrestee.

now about the woman in the blue shirt next to the man the police were surrounding.. if i were the one attempting to arrest him and she was preventing me from making a lawful arrest, then i would taser her too as well as bring her to jail. it doesn’t matter if she was pregnant or not. the only determining factor would be how many officers were present and how hard she was fighting.

given what i saw above, there were plenty of officers around and they could’ve subdued her without tasing her. i’ve seen officers become dependent with their tasers and use it every chance they get because they don’t want to fight anymore. by the way, it’s mainly the older ones from my experience that use the tasers more often.

all in all, the video from above did not show the entire event in it’s entirety. it had a few shots here and there but nothing seemed to be very conclusive from my point of view.

as for the noise ordinance violation.. if you refuse once, i’m going to take you in. you can have your freedom of expression but if others don’t want to hear it… i’m sure you can guess the rest. and since they live next door and can’t get away from it.. you’re pretty much alienating everyone that lives around you.

as for an immigration issue, i believe that if you don’t have any documentation that shows you’re allowed to be in this country then you should be deported.

It’s amazing how weak minds here try to hide from the light by squealing “troll.”

Because you are a troll. You come in here looking for a reaction rather than actually contributing anything.

If anyone deserves a good tasing, it’s assh**es like you.

10-8

How many times have you been pregnant-dumbass???

Darwin

I think you meant to say “Seis veces”- FIFY

The reason that tasers were deployed is because it’s too hard for Prince William County cops to shoot chihuahuas-black labs are more their specialty.

I’m not against ordinances dealing with disorderly conduct or noise per se, but there has to be some objective standard and common sense interpretations being made.

For example, I was in downtown Nashville the other day. I was walking between The Hardrock Cafe and a parking lot to retrieve my umbrella. A family of four was walking ahead of me and a street hustler or beggar (whatever) tried to catch their teenage boy’s attention. He was unsuccessful and I used them for cover on my way by.

On my way back a rather tall bouncer had a knife out and was threatening to cut the hustler if he didn’t get the hell out of in front of his club. The bouncer was chasing him around and causing quite a commotion. Obviously a disorderly conduct ordinance might be a good way to keep tourists from being harrassed. On someone’s private property? Not so much.

After lunch my family and I were walking around and we met a guy who called himself “Guitar Gary”. He’s got a cheap strat, a battery powered amp and some milk crates to sit on while he plays. That’s how he pays for his hotel room every night, God willing.

I gave him a few bucks and he let me sit down and play a few licks, which was pretty cool.

He told me that cops try and get him two ways: Being too close to the building and the noise ordinance. He found some people who let him sit out front of their store so he’s fine on that front. He looked up the noise ordinance and it says you have to be exceeding 85 decibels to be in violation so there’s no way he could be close to that with his little amp. If cops aren’t measuring the decibels then they are strictly harrassing people.

Aaron

I was under the impression that they tacked on the drunk in public to help justify the tasing. I’m sure you would never pile on charges or anything-right?

So what is the procedure for noise ordinance violations? Is this another case of contempt of cop? Turn it down cause we said so? If I paint my house pink it might be irritating but it’s not neccessarily illegal.

Aaron…Aaron…this name is Jewish-yes??? You have………papers?

generally people in my city only get arrested for public intoxication because they’re very drunk in public and when that’s the case they’re only held until they sober up.. and then they’re released without having to pay to get out.

being drunk in public should never be a reason to get tased. that is, unless they’re resisting arrest or is about to harm themselves or others. you have more of a chance of living if i shoot you with a taser than being shot with my .45. personally, i’d rather use my taser.

i don’t just “pile on” charges. if someone is breaking the law, then every law that they break will be on the affidavit i sign. if they have alcohol on their breath but can still function perfectly well, then they will not be charged with public drunk by me.

if you’re trying to sleep at night but your next door neighbor is having a party with loud music, i’m going to show up and order them to turn it down to the acceptable noise level in accordance with the law.

in my city from 0700 – 2100 the lawful noise level is 65db and lower. from 2101 0 0659 the lawful noise level is 60db. db meaning decibals. but that’s just for the residential areas of the city.

before you ask again, yes, i have a noise decibal meter that i use in order to uphold the ordinance. otherwise i wouldn’t in good conscience tell someone to turn the music down when i don’t know the appropriate level.

if i go to their house and they turn it down but then turn it back up when i leave, then i’m going back to their house and i’m going to arrest them.

i’m not going to go back to their house and say “now, i told you to turn it down once, don’t make me come back and tell you to turn it down again.”

that accomplishes nothing and you’re still awake. so not only will i charge them with violating the noise ordinance, i’m also going to charge them with disobeying a lawful command.

if everyone is compliant and cooperative then no one needs to go to jail. there are some people that want to be arrested in front of their family/friends/kids whatever just to attempt to prove a point. but in the end, they just want to fight.

now for your last question. i’m not aware of any jewish ancestry within my bloodline. and i do have “papers” that say i was born in texarkana texas.

Aaron:

Do you define drinking in one’s own backyard as being “drunk in public?

if you read one of my earlier posts you can plainly see that i stated:

“in my city, you can be arrested for public intoxication as long as you are in view of the public.”

while also stating:

“if they have alcohol on their breath but can still function perfectly well, then they will not be charged with public drunk by me.”

however i’m not going to enter someone’s back yard because i see them drinking alcohol to test their sobriety.

if i’m in their back yard because i was called there for a reason and they’re intoxicated being uncooperative, then that’s a different story.

perhaps i should’ve been more specific. i should have said you can be arrested for public intoxication as long as you are “intoxicated” in view of the public.

i can see how that statement could’ve been perceived otherwise.

I propose a law that reads: If a pregnant woman loses the baby as a result of being tased and the person using the taser knew or had reason to know she was pregnant then he should be charged with first degree murder. That will stop the use of tasers on pregnant women!

Only say four things to Leos, Aaron is a prime example. Am I under arrest? Am I free to go? I need to speak with my lawyer. I don’t consent to any searches. Obviously, the 4th amendment doesn’t exist in his mind or in the minds of the people who wrote the city ordinance.

“being drunk in public should never be a reason to get tased. that is, unless they’re resisting arrest or is about to harm themselves or others. you have more of a chance of living if i shoot you with a taser than being shot with my .45. personally, i’d rather use my taser.”

So if you didn’t have a taser, you would shoot somebody with your .45 if they were resisting arrest?

Once I had a Leo come to my house for a noise complaint. I opened my window a little bit and talked to him. He said they got a noise complaint. I asked him to get out his meter and tell me how high the db was. he went to his car to get the meter and the noise was about 3 db over. We turned it down 3 db. I couldn’t tell the difference. He never came in my home and then he left. Big deal. I think I was intoxicated too.

This noise stuff is really interesting. I’ve been researching our ordinance and the Leo has to go to the property line to get a measurement and then he has to go to the complainer, whoever that was to get a reading from their porch.
( Many complainers must not like any noise at all) Doing all this first, then the Leo can come to the home and inform the owner that the noise level is so many Db over the limit and that the owner or occupant has to lower the noise limit to the proper db and the Leo has to give the occupant at least 15 minutes to comply and the Leo has to actually leave and get another call from the complainer.

If the property owner doesn’t comply the Leo can come back and write a citation and ask again for the occupant, owner to please comply.

Ordinance doesn’t say anything about ID production, tasing, arresting, or violating 4th amendment rights of the castle.

steveo, if you were under arrest it wouldn’t matter if you didn’t consent to a search. that right would be revoked as soon as the handcuffs were placed on you.

if you’re under arrest, you’re going to be searched no matter what. it’s called “search incident to arrest.”

rob, i would only shoot someone with my .45 in a life and death situation. if my life or someone else’s life depended on it then yes, i would.

it seems that a lot of you are attempting to place words into my mouth. it’s funny how people can misconstrue my previous posts into their own mis-guided interpretations.

if someone was resisting arrest with a knife then YES, i would use my .45. use some common sense. if someone was resisting arrest with no weapons and just wanted to fist-fight me, then NO, i would NOT use my .45.

come on now. first of all i would use an intermediate weapon (ie: OC spray, Asp, Taser) in that order. that is, unless a weapon was produced.

all those are tools are used in order to gain compliance. i’m not going to let you hurt me, but i’m still going to go through the motions to secure the arrest with any possible way to prevent the other person from getting hurt as well.

i’m not going tit-for-tat with anyone. i will always use the necessary force needed to overcome an opponent.

btw steveo, i’ve got something for you :

Amendment IV

The right of the people to be secure in their persons, houses, papers, and effects, against unreasonable searches and seizures, shall not be violated, and no warrants shall issue, but upon probable cause, supported by oath or affirmation, and particularly describing the place to be searched, and the persons or things to be seized.

probable cause – facts and circumstances that would lead a reasonable person to believe that a crime is, has, or is about to be committed.

violating a noise ordinance (verified with a decibal meter) is a crime. people who commit crimes go to jail. people who go to jail get searched.

i wouldn’t expect you to fully understand because you don’t know the first thing about being a police officer. but it’s okay. i’m just glad i’m here to enlighten you.

steveo, that may be true.. where you live. not all city ordinances are the same.

city ordinances can be more stringent than their state or federal laws.

i’ll give you an example:a state law about disorderly conduct profanity may say it’s illegal to use profane language in the presence of 5 or more people on any city street, public place, or business.

a city ordinance, again, can be more stringent(more harsh) by saying : it’s illegal to use profane language in the presence of 2 or more people on any city street, public place, or business.

there is also “disorderly conduct – failure to comply with a lawful order.” you don’t turn it down, you go to jail. it’s as simple as that.

Actually, I think Aaron is being pretty reasonable, really.

Let’s not forget that this isn’t a case of police going after someone just on their own, for whatever reason. The underlying initial fail in a noise complaint has to do with neighbors that can’t work it out themselves.

So it’s likely that the neighbor calling in the complaint is a jerk and can’t just ask the people they live next to to turn it down on their own… or the loud neighbor is too much a jerk to do so if asked… or possibly come combination of the two. (Or maybe they’re just really antisocial people all around.)

But I’m guessing the cops don’t even want to be there in the first place.

In most cases that I’m familiar with, anyway.

But here we have what looks like an inordinate number of officers showing up for a simple noise complaint… and if you end up letting things escalate until you really need to TASER a seemingly compliant old guy and pregnant woman, you have messed up somewhere along the line.

Ok, Aaron, I’ll bite. What were the measurements from Mr. Rodriquez’s property line and what were the measurements from the complainer’s property? No mention of that in the reports, But you probably know.

Aaron #45

“city ordinances can be more stringent than their state or federal laws.”

Is the 4th amendment a Federal Law or a local ordinance where you live?

One of the really big problems here is that the Rodriquez family made the mistake of actually believing that the Leos were looking out for their best interests. Why they didn’t get that camera on this from start to finish is the real tragedy.

And, uh, by the way, Aaron, tell us what municipality you live in, I live in Sarasota, Fl. I’ll look up your noise ordinance and post it here.