Pixiq

http://www.fullertonsfuture.org/

This link is for you Carlos, check the top posting about cameras being confiscated after and during the kelly thomas beating death...

Send me an email with an email to contact you for future contacts

"That's not assault" - WRONG. That is, in fact, assault. Had he identified himself (with proper credentials) as a 'safety officer' then maybe not, but in this case, yes, grabbing someone's arm like that is assault.

"Stop arguing with me, right now." - You have the badge, you get to determine when a conversation becomes an argument, apparently.

"You need to give ID" - WRONG. He changes two sentences later to "you have to identify yourself" - This is correct. You do have to identify yourself (even given the bogus 'investigation' excuse) but you do NOT have to provide ID.

The 'obstructing government administration' charges are bogus. Not only should they be dismissed, but the officers involved should be formally reprimanded. Hey, your job is to enforce the laws, you should know the laws.

The statutes in New York clearly side with not having to provide physical ID. You do have to (truthfully) identify yourself but that is all. Failure to provide physical IDs is no basis for arrest or detention.

Kiryas Joel is an interesting community. As I recall, you should read up on the school that supposedly burned down the evening before the state inspector paid a visit for a true picture of the depths of corruption in this community. It is just a few miles from Woodstock. Everyone in NY knows about this place, and tries to stay clear, except for concerts in Woodstock (it is named Bethel Woods Center for the Arts now).

I don't know about NY so I won't comment on the specifics for there. I will tell you that I have been cuffed for that very same thing here in AZ.

And I was released without being arrested.

In AZ there is no law that anyone must possess an ID other than one must have a drivers license to operate a motor vehicle.

If I'm not driving I don't bring an ID with me anywhere just in case I am asked to provide ID. I can factually assert that I don't have one.

Cops love that.

I guess in my case I would not provide ID and let the court settle the matter.I like Chris K's idea and only carry small amount of cash no cards of any kind.

There is also a pending federal lawsuit claiming the town should be dissolved, arguing that it violates the establishment clause by operating as a theocracy.

http://www.seattlepi.com/news/article/Dissident-Jews-say-enclave-in-NY-o...

Reminds me a bit of that FLDS-controlled town in Colorado(?) where 20/20, Dateline, etc get harassed by the police for, what else, recording video. I also seem to remember hearing that federal charges have been filed against the police in that jurisdiction recently (in the last couple of years).

Just wondering...does anyone know if there is a law in any state that requires you to carry identification? I'll just stop carrying mine as much as possible then.

BAD COPS, NO DONUT!

BAD JEW:

This is not a kabutz in Isreal

This is America

Go back to ESL and learn history and American civics classes.

I can't wait to hear how this one works out.

I think the lovely, tolerant town of Kiryas Joel would be the absolute PERFECT location for a gay pride parade, accompanied by an army of photogs to document the fun, all wearing shorts and tee shirts or wife beaters, just to show what they think of the towns shitty dress code.

They must have a sign around there that says "You must be *this* stupid to be a law enforcement officer.

As one of our greatest philosophers of our time once said, "Stupid is as stupid does."

Interesting.

KJ is a fairly short drive from me, but I've never been there. I've heard of it though.

I think it may be time to pay it a visit. With more than one camera.

Oh and in case these so-called 'public safety' thugs should get any ideas, be it noted I have a NYS concealed weapons permit, which should even things up a little...

Any other NYers ready to put their camera where their mouth is? :)

Mike

if there will be an organized group of photographers marching through kiryat joel , I would love to participate. I will keep checking this thread to see how this develops.

I'm keeping an eye on this thread too... if enough of us get together I might even be persuaded to drag the RED up there! Awaiting further responses...

Mike

Oh and if any one knows any Hot Chicks with Daisy Dukes... naw... maybe too provocative...

Officers abusing their badge and position is out of control. The last time I was arrested 12 years ago, the judge told me "ignorance of the law is not an excuse".

That should work both ways. When an officer blatantly violates your rights because they only have a GED and went through a 7 week class that issued them a gun and taser they need to be held responsible. Actually to a higher degree, not 140 hour paid vacation.

Simple solution especially in this ancient town, every officer should have to sign that when they royally screw up and violate a persons rights they either 1: turn in their state certification or 2: be locked in the pillory/ stocks in front of the courthouse for 48 hours. Having only those two options hanging over their head I bet every officer would either learn the law or find other employment.

Wow, and pundits are screaming about Sharia law destroying the nation?

I wish I lived close, I'd be there every day recording video of everyone I saw on the streets. They'd have to stay in their homes & businesses to get away from my camera. :)

How in the hell can these state police officers blatantly lie and keep a straight face? seriously...

Unfortunately, the hikers got things wrong. Yes the constable committed a crime. They were required to identify themselves. Their mistake was fighting with the state police.

They should have said "My name is X and I do not consent to ANY searches. Furthermore, I shall not make a statement without the representation of legal counsel."

Then when pursued further for ID, provided it in complete silence. They should have obtained a business card from the state police.

At that point in time, any arrest or further search MAY be able to be determined to be illegal. It would make it much easier for an atty to defend them AND fry the constable and state police.

RE: What would you have done in this situation?

“Suspicious activity” equals “void for vagueness” making the detention illegal. Study the legal concept known as the void for vagueness doctrine.

Secondly, study the Supreme Court cases Terry vs. Ohio for detention issues and Hiibel vs. Nevada AKA Hiibel vs. 6th judicial district of Nevada for ID issues. These supreme court decisions apply anywhere in the U.S.

NOWHERE(for non motor vehicle issues)in the U.S. do you have to provide physical ID(Hiibel) if you are legally detained (Terry)

If your state law requires physical ID it is unconstitutional as per Hiibel vs. Nevada. Hiibel requires ONLY that you disclose(verbally state) your name if the detention is legal as per Terry and there is a state law requiring it.

Notice how NY CPL 140.50 does not require physical ID and the detention was illegal anyway under 140.50 since the detainees were not cited which specific law they violated, were violating or where about to violate.

The OGA charge is not substantiated and here is why. The law is as follows:
New York Penal - Article 195 - § 195.05 Obstructing Governmental Administration in the Second Degree

§ 195.05 Obstructing governmental administration in the second degree. A person is guilty of obstructing governmental administration when he intentionally obstructs, impairs or perverts the administration of law or other governmental function or prevents or attempts to prevent a public servant from performing an official function, by means of intimidation, physical force or interference, or by means of any independently unlawful act, or by means of interfering, whether or not physical force is involved, with radio, telephone, television or other telecommunications systems owned or operated by the state, or a county, city, town, village, fire district or emergency medical service or by means of releasing a dangerous animal under circumstances evincing the actor's intent that the animal obstruct governmental administration. Obstructing governmental administration is a class A misdemeanor.

A person is not obstructing by refusing to show physical ID in the detention mode because there is no statutory authority to force him to produce ID and even if there was it would be unconstitutional.

Never forget, the executive branch derives its empowerment from constitutional authority and statutory authority that is constitutional.

In NY there is an official misconduct law that applies to public servants as follows:

New York Penal - Article 195 - § 195.00 Official Misconduct

§ 195.00 Official misconduct. A public servant is guilty of official misconduct when, with intent to obtain a benefit or deprive another person of a benefit: 1. He commits an act relating to his office but constituting an unauthorized exercise of his official functions, knowing that such act is unauthorized; or 2. He knowingly refrains from performing a duty which is imposed upon him by law or is clearly inherent in the nature of his office. Official misconduct is a class A misdemeanor.

Additionally a civil suit for conspiracy to violate civil rights in federal court can be considered based on this federal criminal law.
TITLE 18 U.S.C. § 241 : US Code - Section 241: Conspiracy against rights

If two or more persons conspire to injure, oppress, threaten, or
intimidate any person in any State, Territory, Commonwealth,
Possession, or District in the free exercise or enjoyment of any
right or privilege secured to him by the Constitution or laws of
the United States, or because of his having so exercised the same;
or
If two or more persons go in disguise on the highway, or on the
premises of another, with intent to prevent or hinder his free
exercise or enjoyment of any right or privilege so secured -
They shall be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than
ten years, or both; and if death results from the acts committed in
violation of this section or if such acts include kidnapping or an
attempt to kidnap, aggravated sexual abuse or an attempt to commit
aggravated sexual abuse, or an attempt to kill, they shall be fined
under this title or imprisoned for any term of years or for life,
or both, or may be sentenced to death.

As a private citizen, walking down the street with a camera taking pictures subjects a person to the same level of scrutiny as a person breathing, since neither is a crime.
(In certain instances it may be required to specify that you are in the capacity of private citizen and not media or commercial.)