L.A. Sheriff's Deputies Trained To Pat-Down Photographers

October 22, 2011 @ 1:36PM

L.A. Sheriff's Deputies Trained To Pat-Down Photographers

The fear is they might pull out a gun when confronted

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Greggory Moore, a Long Beach Post reporter who was detained for taking pictures last summer, has embarked on a mission to expose the unconstititional practices of local law enforcement agencies in how they deal with photographers.

His latest installment reveals that Los Angeles County Sheriff's deputies are trained to search photographers who are taking pictures in public, which is illegal (the patdown, not the photography).

Here is what Captain Steven Roller told Moore:

I'm going to make sure, just real quick, I'm going to do a non-invasive pat-down, okay? And now I'm sure this guy doesn't have a weapon. Now I can kind of relax a bit and do the second part of this thing and find out why he's taking pictures of the courthouse, okay? … If you ever read anything about training material, they always tell you after you make sure there's no secreted weapons, then you always want to keep an eye on the hands. … But I know certainly that if I would have said, 'Can I see some identification?' that would have been too late. Because if I had said, 'Can I see some identification?' and you're going to reach back and get your wallet out of your back pocket, that's too late to suddenly say, 'Oh, maybe I need to pat you down to make sure you don't have a weapon,' because you're already going for the back pocket. That would have been too late.

First of all, there is no such thing as a "non-invasive patdown" when you have not committed a crime. In fact, there is no such thing as a non-invasive interrogation when you have not committed a crime.

The fact that the deputy wil insist on seeing your identification because you happen to be photographing a courthouse is a huge invasion of privacy.

The fact that he might think you will pull out a gun instead of a wallet is outright paranoia bordering on hysteria.

And paraoia is no excuse to commit illegal acts.

Peter Bibring, an attorney with the American Civil Liberties Union, says that these practices by the Sheriff's Department are illegal.

"The fact that [the Sheriff's Department] might be following their training on counter-terrorism doesn't give them license to violate the Constitution," Bibring says. "Under the Fourth Amendment, police can only detain a person they have reason to believe is involved in criminal activity, and can only perform a pat-down on a person they have reason to believe is armed and dangerous. It's ridiculous to think that merely taking photographs of a courthouse would give the police good reason to think you were involved in terrorism, much less or armed and dangerous. If deputies want to know more about why someone is taking pictures, they can always just walk up and ask. But they can't detain or frisk the person without reason to believe there's criminal activity involved."

Like the Long Beach Police Chief Moore wrote about in August, the Los Angeles sheriff's captain said his deputies are trained to judge the esthetic value of a photo before determining if the photographer is a potential terrorist.

Roller also confirmed that the aesthetics of the photographic subject is a criterion in determining whether a photographer's activity is suspicious. "Look, I gotta tell you, [the current Long Beach] courthouse is not that attractive," he said. "Now, the new one may be different; but the old one, it's not attractive, okay? So, does that person [photographing the old courthouse] fit into the potential terrorist kind of thing? Well, let's go check it out."

You would hope that instead of sending officers and deputies to art appreciation classes as they are apparently doing, they should send them to classes in basic Constitutional law.

Comments

Guy Fawkes

6 months ago

It never ceases to amaze me just how many ways piggly wiggly comes up with to violate peoples rights.

WayUpNorth

6 months ago

Having known lots of cops, I have seen two reasons for their having chosen that occupation.
The first is what I call LDS. No, not a church; it means ' Little Dick Syndrome". Whether real or perceived,some men become afraid that their genitalia is of inadequate size. In men, this belief ( and usually with some verification from locker room observations-though this alone is not proof of substandard size ) can lead to feelings of gross inferiority, and subsequently anger over this unresolvable dilemma. This anger is sometimes fueled by joking and ridicule during that unfeeling, incredibly mean period known as 'puberty', and can lead them to partake in unreasonable activity such as dangerous sports 'manly' football or such sports,or taking an occupation perceived as dangerous, such as fire fighting or police work, thereby to boost their public image of and therefore partly alleviate the shame and feelings of inadequacy. It can be likened to whistling past the gates of the Graveyard:it is self-deception.
The second is plain meanness. Sometimes through no fault of their own, men ( and women ) are treated so badly that they repeat the act when grown, and inflict pain/fear/subjugation on others. The vernacular of this is, "well...duhhh !" People react to life as they are treated. Psychologically damaged people are not fit to become 'peace officers", because they are not peaceful.
Psychological testing and rigorous enforcement by the PEOPLE, those who hold the power, if of prime importance here: those sadistic people who would torture others in any name ( for 'freedom', or, 'anti-t-word'-ism ) should be banned from ANY position of power.
MANY thanks to those like Greggory Moore who are choosing to possibly make their lives a living hell because of exposing thuggery like that ocurring in L.B.
To all good cops: Thanks for being human. Please turn in your rotten apples.
To sadistic cops everywhere, I quote Arthur Miller: "Fuck You ".

Tamara

6 months ago

Thank you WUN, for your observations about physical atributes of cops. To add another, height. How many of us know a cop who admits to sqeaking in by a 1/4 of an inch? Some of these are the same people who spend thousands of dollars on dogs bred for their viciousness and thousands more on attack training equipment to make the statement 'OK so I might not be much of a bad ass but check out my dogs.'

Kel

6 months ago

Rule #1: Don't bring ID (like a driver's license, etc) if you're not driving. Carry no written identification at all, whatsoever. This is America, not the Soviet Union.

Rule #2: Don't talk to cops, period. They ask why you're photographing something, only then should you state that you're not going to talk to them: "Sorry officer, but I'm going to exercise my right to remain silent." When they get hostile, stand your ground and shut up. See here for more: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik&feature=mfu_in_order&list=UL

Do not waver under any circumstances. Don't talk to them AT ALL. Don't try to quote your rights - cops aren't interested and don't care.

Rule #3: While not talking to them, talk to someone else - preferably by calling a lawyer (or pretending to call a lawyer) on your cellphone. The cop will get the damn message.

If necessary, let them arrest you for not talking and photographing. Sue them for $500,000 when you're falsely arrested. Retire early.

Bergman

6 months ago

The Open Carry movement has similar advice for states where open carry of a firearm is legal. They call it carrying sterile.

Rail Car Fan

6 months ago

Kel...

There ya go. Y'all got the right idea there. I would just LOVE to get arrested for remaining silent. Money.. money.. money.. $$$$$$$$$$$

Rail Car Fan

Common Sense

6 months ago

Still amazed that the ACLU doesn't/haven't taken some sort of action. Who is qualified to say what is "esthetic value."

Sounds like a CLEAR CUT violation of fourth ammendment rights!

So tired of these guys getting away with this! Until more lawsuits happen, I'm afraid this is going to continue.

Bergman

6 months ago

Not just the fourth, but the first as well. Declaring someone's expression invalid because you disagree with it? Definitely not kosher for an agent of the government to do.

Bigguy

6 months ago

I live in Long Beach, the city is locking down photography just about everywhere.

I have now looked elsewhere to enjoy my hobby.

Guy Fawkes

6 months ago

Photography has been around since the civil war. Has there ever been another period where photographers were looked at as suspicious people? WW2? 50's - cold war?

Rusty Carr

6 months ago

ORGANIZE!! ORGANIZE!! ORGANIZE!! Fer Christ's sake folks, you've got the INTERNET!! Use it. Organize a large group of people and go get in their faces and photograph 'till the frigg'n cows come home! Have videographers stand off at a distance and video record the whole thing. Get kids and old people involved. Get every race and ethnic group around involved. Find a lawyer who'se a photographer and get him/her involved. Be PROACTIVE and take the fight to them. If they want to make mass arrests then everybody pleads not guilty and demands a jury trial, clog up their courts. Don't act like sheeple, take the offensive!

io-io

6 months ago

Choose some evening (during the week so as to not have to spend the weekend in jail), put the word out, send a notice to the ACLU that there is going to be a photography event at the Long Beach Courthouse, expect mass arrests for photography and being a terrorists, also for not agreeing to be patted down for carrying/using a camera.

I am sure that by not agreeing to a patdown, that will be grounds for an instant arrest for resisting. We can advertise this as a way to upgrade our camera gear, and a boost for the retirement account.

Ring the courthouse with folks and their cameras and call the newspapers, TV stations and Cable news outlets - it just might be a slow news evening.

Also, I wonder if the police kommander there at the courthouse pulled the google camera car over?

HONORYOUROATH

6 months ago

I see a lot of commentary and support of the 1st,4th,and 5th amendments here but where is the support of the 2nd amendment.
I was in Green Cove Springs Florida last month timing the yellow light duration at intersections with Red light Scameras.Later that evening I went down and filmed the Clay County Court House as a part of the same video I'm working on.All Of this I did as a legally armed citizen.I don't like the way the article implies armed people are all dangerous.