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How much should you charge for a photograph?Man Detained For Two Hours After Photographing TSA Lounging About
A man who attempted to videotape the nametag of a TSA official was assaulted, detained and threatened with arrest Saturday if he did not delete the video.
This is the third time in a month an airport employee has confronted a person for attempting to photograph their nametag.
Mark Lyon said even after he deleted several videos of his altercation with TSA, Port Authority police detained him for two hours while they ran all kinds of background checks on him.
Fortunately, he wasn’t attempting to fly out of John F. Kennedy Airport in New York City, so he didn’t miss a flight.
He was just trying to determine if they were using the full body scanners at the airport, he explains on Flyer Talk.
It all started when he snapped a photo of a group of TSA officials lounging about near a checkpoint.
First, a TSA official confronted him, attempting to smack the cell-phone camera from his hand.
Then more TSA officials responded, including one who attempted to wrestle the phone from his hand.
Lyon said he began yelling, which prompted the other TSA officials to order their aggressive counterpart to back off.
He was surrounded by a group of TSA officials when he spotted two Port Authority police officers walking into the terminal.
They didn’t help matters any.
(Police) demanded I stop taping. I complied. They interviewed the TSO who hit my phone and got the story from everyone that I was making things up. They refused to look at the video from my phone.
A TSA supervisor came down and told everyone that I was not allowed to film (he has a rule against it in his SOP, which I was not allowed to see), and the manager from the IAT (Terminal 4) came and said that the terminal had a rule against photography and that I needed to be kicked out, since I wasn't flying.
When the TSA supervisor addressed me and refused to show me his secret rule, I started filming again. He gave me the familiar "the website doesn't apply here" speech. He was very interested about whether I was with the media.
First they told him there was a TSA policy that forbids cameras near checkpoints, which we know is false.
Then they told him it was against the policy of the International Arrivals Terminal.
Then they told him it was a Port Authority rule, even though they could provide no documentation to confirm this.
A Port Authority police supervisor eventually showed up and threatened to arrest him unless he deleted the videos.
Lyon said he finally deleted the videos when one of the officers pulled out his handcuffs and walked up behind him.
Once I deleted everything - supervised by two police officers and the guy from the TSA - they again forced me to show them that nothing was left on my phones or camera. During this, one of the officers activated the camera on my android phone and (I think) wiped out the recording of the TSO hitting me. I tried to show them this video before deleting it - Officer Prior watched it and told Officer Bruckner to look at it, but when I showed it to him, he just started screaming that I must "delete that too, or you're taking a ride with us now!"
I think Officer Prior realized that the video showed exactly the opposite of what he had just been told by a gaggle of TSA officers.
Once everything was deleted, Officer Bruckner calmed down and gave me a lecture about wasting his time. During this, he told me how much he and his officers hate the TSA and that he hates it even more that half-informed people like me cause him to have to back them up. He then demanded that "his guys" "run every damn database on this guy" before sending me on my way. That took about 2 hours, all of it spent standing in the terminal and near the air train. It appears that the slowest search was the FBI. As soon as that came up clean, I was sent on my way.
During this time, the police had my driver's license. In addition to their records, they allowed the TSA, the IAT people and an unknown person to copy all of my information. The TSA guy (in the red shirt from the video above) called and started a "SAR" on me, and loudly said to someone near him that "we should put that guy on the no fly list".
Lyon is a frequent flyer who recorded the video of a woman nearly coming to tears after she was groped by a TSA official in Chicago.
He was able to recover some of the videos they forced him to delete. They are posted below (not sure if I got the order correct).
Comments
From the Port Authority website
The Port Authority reserves the right to restrict videotaping and photography at its airports. Videotaping in runway and taxiway areas at all airports is prohibited at all times. Videotaping and photographing at security checkpoint areas operated by the U.S. Transportation Security Administration is prohibited without the consent of the TSA.
http://www.panynj.gov/press-room/media-access.html
Now I can’ t find TSA policy other than the 2008 Screening Manual section 2.7 which basically says taking pictures at check points is okay as long as you don’ t get in the way.
Overall I think this could get ugly, but hopefully will result in clear rules and procedures on filming instead of all these secret rules and very heavy handed tactics.
I think a few hundred folks with cameras need to go the airport to pick up some "friends" - all at the same time......
Talking to the port authority will do no good. talking to the tsa will do no good. We must write letters to our state representatives and our congresspeople. We must demand that they uphold the constitution. When they get complaints or a threat to cut budgets because they have forgotten who it is they work for only then will things change.
You tube videos of police will have no effect, You tube videos of Politicians and naming names of the politicians will get results.
State Rep (John Doe) thinks the constitution of the United states does not apply anymore. When a you tube hit with there names with a video like this start getting hits things will get done.
Sorry to be a bring-down, but writing to state representatives and congresspeople won't do any good either. You need to understand: you are not their constituent; corporations are. How much money have you slid into your congressperson's hands? No, I didn't think so. They care zilch about your concerns.
I do agree that youTube videos of politicians waffling and lying may do some good. Contrary to your assertion, I feel the same about videos of police misconduct. People like Carlos will get more and more people fed up over government corruption and murder, starting with a trickle and ending with a torrent, I believe.
So they tell you that you are committing a crime, then tell you to delete the evidence of the crime.
Once deleted begin to walk away, if they try to stop you ask what for, when they say taking pictures tell them that your camera is empty and you have taken no pictures, they have just lost their proof.
15 bucks gets you a new ID. Just tell the license bureau that your license was stolen by a bunch of crooks.
Also, "am I being detained or am I free to go."
Also, "If you wish to know more than my name or address you will need to speak to my lawyer".
Also, "Is that a request or an order".
Also, Am I being detained or am I free to go".
As a member on flyertalk you should know this.
What's with the 'delete' crap? Any LEO should by now know that automatically puts them on the wrong side of the law - it's either criminal damage, or destruction of evidence - and it does no good at all, since it can pretty much always be undeleted later...
And good luck to anyone trying the 'delete it or else' schtick on me; my camera doesn't *have* the ability to delete footage in-camera - as a very deliberate design choice. You can only delete when you hook the drive up to a computer.
Mike
Exactly.
They can delete it when they pry it from my lawyer's cold dead fingers!
The fascists.
People really need to use Qik if they're gonna put themselves in these kinds of situations.
MIKE: then when they ask for the tel. number for ya lawyer, tell em its 1-888-fuc-kyou......LOL
Yes, because behaving childishly in a situation like this is known to work so well, and makes every other photographer look like an equally consumate professional
that should get em going, and youll be going to jail..hopefully not, but it may be worth it, could be fun doing that if you have a few doz. or so of your friends with you. LMAO
I don't know who owns the security cameras in the airport but a quick FOIA request of the video of this is needed. After you have the videos take the one of the guy slapping you to the DA and ask that he file charges against the TSA person.
I know one thing I would like to ask the officer asking him about a trip to the station.
Do you still love nature, despite what it did to you?
Thanks to Mark Lyon for exposing these criminals for what they are. TSA is an abusive agency composed of arrogant misfits and criminals. They don't want to be filmed because crime by TSA employees is so rampant at airports that they're afraid they'll be caught on video.
Just last week two more screeners were arrested at JFK for stealing from carry on bags. It has become so obvious to anyone who travels more than once a year that this agency is composed of misfits and perverts that are left unsupervised by indifferent and incompetent managers.
Since December there have been 41 screeners arrested for crimes ranging from rape and child pornography to drug trafficking and theft from bags. In the same period there have been 40 security breaches or test failures, dozens of lawsuits and thousands of groping and abuse complaints.
Pistole has proven completely incapable of managing this problematic agency and admitted this week on USA Today that there are rampant abuses of passengers by his staff but that the he won't take action unless the problem gets much worse.
TSA is the most hated agency in government and the majority of travelers want them to be reformed or abolished. This agency is violating passenger rights on a daily basis, committing crimes and endangering airline security with their incompetence.
Avoid air travel and complain to the airlines and elected officials before the situation worsens further.
http://www.travelunderground.org/index.php?threads/master-lists-of-tsa-a...
If the photography is not a crime, then forcing the photographer to delete images (or the cops doing it for the photographer) is destruction of property, and possibly armed robbery if they illegally seize the camera to do it. It is also violation of 18USC241 and 18USC242.
If the photography is a crime, then deleting the images is destruction of evidence, which is a felony.
Either way, the TSA and/or the Port Police are committing at least one felony in the course of the incident. Last I checked, being caught committing felonies is grounds for a citizen's arrest (which is legal in quite a few states).
In Australia, our airports were sold by the government to private corporations; so technically they can set rules that we're not allowed to photograph inside them.
I just read that America is different and it sounds like airports are public property; true?
I'm so disappointed the photographer deleted everything after the handcuffs came out. I bet he's regretting it now? Seeing as he didn't have a plane to catch, it would have been more efficient to let them arrest you, so you can then sue them both. I mean, it's not like you've got something better to do!
Yes and no.
Generally, most airports are owned and operated by governments, through taxation. It can be by a city/town, by a state, by a county, or similar. Some airports are privately owned, but most major ones are public. Airlines are private corporations that lease space at the airport from the government that owns the airport.
Airlines have private property rights within their leased area, as does the actual owner of the airport if the airport is privately owned. But the full extent of those private property rights with regards to banning photography is that the private property owner can order you off their property if you break their rules. Refusing to leave does become a crime (trespassing) for which you could be arrested and even convicted, but simple photography doesn't grant them the authority to have the photographer arrested, they MUST order the photographer to leave first, and that order MUST be ignored before police can be called to make an arrest.
However, there are laws regarding the contract terms in an airline ticket. Ordering the holder of a valid ticket out of the airport is on very shaky legal grounds. Unless the ticket holder has committed an actual crime, it creates a large amount of liability in the civil courts to deny someone what they've already purchased. Put simply, kicking out a ticket-holder for photography is likely to result in a lawsuit, and the photographer is almost guaranteed to win that lawsuit. Even putting up a defense against a lawsuit is very expensive, and few corporations are willing to put themselves in that situation. The general traffic areas of an airport are almost always government owned, not leased to an airline.
The Constitution (both the federal one and those of the States) puts sharp limits on what a government may do. For property owned by governments, this usually extends even to corporations contracted to administer those properties on behalf of the government. The legal protections for photography (and other forms of expression) are EXTREMELY strong. In my previous post above, I noted two statues of federal law. Put simply, what the TSA and Port Police did violates those statutes, which (at the level of the violation) is a felony offense, punishable by up to ten years in prison, and/or a $10,000 fine. If even the threat of deadly force were added into the mix (say, one of the police drew his sidearm) the offense would become a capital crime (life without parole or execution upon conviction).
Always amazed by how completely and pervasively abusive twits are ignorant of undelete.
Also amazed by people who understand what's going to happen, yet get themselves into situations like this without a backup recording device running in their pocket.
This is so infuriating on so many levels. Had this been me I would have been arrested.
TSA -WTF. How is that this organization repeatedly fails at every opportunity. You have front-line folks who are ignorant of what their jobs and where their authority starts and ends. You have supervisors (red-shirts) that are shining examples of the failings of the blue-shirt folks. Finally, you combine the two with lowest common denominator "terminal managers" and you have a recipe for disaster.
The problem here is that everyone (TSA, LEO, PortAuth)"owns" a piece of the experience and subsequently is a part of the problem. It also allowed the responsible party (police) to completely shirk their duties and refer to persons who have no actual authority to dictate "rules" to be enforced.
We need to pass a law that clearly states that recording via video, photo, audio is 100% legal in all areas accessible by the public (terminal, security, ticketing) - EVERYWHERE a ticketed or non-ticketed person can be leagally- in ALL airports. The only thing not permitted to be filmed or photographed are the screens of the x-ray machines. Further this law would outline that it is 100% legal to film, record, photograph the TSA screening process and personnel and that persons found guilty of violating this law (harassing, detaining, ordering a citizen to deleted recordings) could be punished through loss of employment, fines, and jail time (in the case of assault).
This law would supersede any policies (published or not) as well as Private property laws that are inappropriately applied in privately owned/privately managed public airports.
It would be interesting to have used a live webcast from the phone and tell TSA that your are not recording. Here is a link to a simple method to do so... next time. http://www.techrepublic.com/blog/networking/livecast-diy-webcasts-using-...
Awesome link. Thanks!
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