Pixiq

Good to see that kind of guy is on our side.

If the $ were to come from the cop’s wallet this I think there would be a drastic reduction of such happenings.

While I am all for free speech and the right to express yourself I think this guy is going to far.

Just because you can, does not mean you should.
Based on this article the cop has nothing to him, others may have and he can express his dismay to him.

As we read many time on this blog there are cops out there that deserve this kind of “gesture” since they violate our rights as photographers but flipping off a cop just because he has this job is just retarded.

Grow up douche.

I agree.

Freedom of Speech is one thing, but his actions can be taken as assault.
Guy Freeman´s last blog ..Quote of the Day

He’s on our side? Walking down the street flipping off cops is our side? We legally photograph cops in public locations from public locations.
Guy Freeman´s last blog ..Quote of the Day

The guy seems like a douche. It’s not like he even got arrested. He flipped off a cop and that got the cops attention. I’m not sure what the point is in bothering to do that unless he’s just looking for an excuse to sue them.

Next story about this guy will be that he sued some fast food chain for making him fat.
Guy Freeman´s last blog ..Quote of the Day

The man did nothing wrong, and exercising your actual rights is not a form or assault. The only people in the wrong or the cops who abuse their power to “put this guy in his place”. What he is doing is actually going to help you photographers out in the long run, so don’t try to distance yourself from him in an attempt to feel better about yourself.

If the cops can’t recognize the rights of the worst of us, they will never recognize the rights of the best of us.

I think your F key maybe broken.

I guess it all depends on the way he does it. Holding up his fat little sausage finger with a smile on his face is different than with a frown.

I don’t consider it an abuse of power to check on some guy who is flipping people off, thats the role of the police — to keep order and ensure the public safety. They don’t know if this guy isn’t also flipping off other people.
Guy Freeman´s last blog ..Quote of the Day

I just don’t see how his rights are violated if he wasn’t arrested or charged with anything. He wasn’t even given tickets that were anything major. It sounds like both cops were pretty restrained. Being pulled over when you’re making an ass of yourself is not a violation of your rights.

Just because you have a right do do something, doesn’t make it a great idea. I have a right to walk down shady urban streets with money hanging out of my pockets. Does that excuse the actions of the mugger? (No) Did I have some role by waving a red flag before a bull? (Yes) The cop who detained him without cause was wrong to do so, period. You have to understand that when you go out of your way to tweak them, they are going to look for reasons to make your day miserable. Is your expression of such a caustic opinion worth the (completely legal) misery you’ll endure subsequent to that?

He has the right to shot the bird to any cop or government official regardless of his attitude or facial expression, and have that act protected by the Constitution. It is as simple as that. Any form of recourse in by the police or the government in response to that argument is illegal/unConstitutional and that really is the end of the discussion. The cops have no right to detain him, file bogus charges on him, or anything else in response to his action.

Know your rights.

Rob Molecule, I explained your question in my reply to Guy Freeman.

TGAP DAD, if you want to say that cops are the same as thugs on the street, so be it. I usually hold government paid officers of the state to a higher standard than street thugs. Officers are paid to uphold the law, not force people to submit to their personal preferences. He is shooting the bird at cops, and they are acting illegally by threatening and detaining the man on trumped up charges, to put him in his place. It gets no more open and shut than that. What I don’t understand is why you are more apt to side with the dirty cops than the innocent non-cop. I would think the rational response to the situation would be that the cops need to be suspended without pay, or seriously reprimanded.

You are all judging his character and the morality of his actions instead of looking at what is legal and what is not legal. Was it a dumb personal move to flip off a cop? Yes (a character judgement). Was it illegal? No (a legal judgement). Just because it is legal does it mean you should do it? Not necessarily, but the law is there to PROTECT us- a safety net just in case we lose control of our decency as humans as humans and flip another person off. The sole action of flipping someone off is not illegal, regardless of whether or not we think he’s an idiot.

How do you figure his actions might be taken as assault?

What reasonable person (police officer) is going to fear imminent attack based on getting flipped-off?

Assault? Yes, of course…

Flipping the bird, which translates into ‘fuck you’ means that penetration is imminent. Yes! Those flipping the bird must be jailed on the charges of attempted rape!!

He is so fat that he might be mistaken for a cop.

Oh noes! Flipping people off leads to anarchy! Cats and dogs sleeping together!

But seriously. Which country are you from. It is always interesting to hear the ways of non-American cultures. In our country, the United States, the police are charged with enforcing the laws of our country, not making sure that people aren’t sticking their tongues out at other people.

Rob: “Being pulled over when you’re making an ass of yourself is not a violation of your rights.”

Yes, it is. It’s the essence of a violation of your rights. Do you think the police have the right to stop you for doing things they don’t like, but which are legal? What about chewing gum? Smoking? Wearing an offensive political slogan on your T-Shirt? The “seizure” in question is explicitly not within the authority of the police, and be certain, being detained and questioned is a seizure.

This guy is a scumbag. Scumbags are frequently at the center of constitutional questions. Miranda? Criminal. Larry Flynt? Scumbag extreme. We stand up for the rights of everyone, or no one.

Was he arrested or beaten? No. But he’s suing anyway. That’s what makes him a douche. If I’m driving and doing something dumb, I would expect to be pulled over. That’s not violating my rights and this is dumb to make a case out of nothing.

The bootom line is – Does flipping someone off give the cop reasonable suspicion of some illegal activity going on? Probably not. Was Ekas doing anything illegal that should lead to a stop? No. Did the cop overstep his boundaries based on established common law? Yes. Is it illegal to be an ass? No.

That would be “bottom”

Suing isn’t what makes him a douche. But, how do you propose we correct the abusive behavior of the police?

You’re wrong on when your rights are violated. It’s not a close call, either. Take a look at Cohen v. California (1971) where the Supremes ruled that an individual could not be criminally prosecuted for wearing a jacket bearing the words “Fuck the Draft” into a courthouse.

Oh, and Lewis v. City of New Orleans. convicted under a law which prohibited using “obscene or opprobrious language” to police officers. Arrested after she yelled obscenities at a police officer who asked her husband to produce his driver’s license. Sound familiar?

You’re giving examples of people being arrested and prosecuted. This guy wasn’t. If he had been charged with disorderly conduct or some crap then I’d get behind him. But he was let go given only tickets that were quite possibly legitimate. I’d make sure not to have anything wrong with my car before I go provoking the police.

Nicely put, Torg.

Last I checked, “contemp of cop” isn’t a crime, and many police do things worthy of contempt, in my view. Most especially, they generally protect their own when cops commit crimes that would land the average citizen in jail. That’s contemptible behavior.

Ah…I see. So, back to the original question…what line is there for police, for you, before it’s too far? How petty can the behavior be before any detention is too much? The right to freely go about our business is the center for of the right to be free from unreasonable searches and seizures. The right to express contrary, even offensive opinions is the heart of the first amendment.

It seems you’re fixated on the fact that the guy is provoking trouble, and I agree, it makes him a bad guy. However, again, we have to defend this idiot so the encroachment on our rights stops at the first possible point. This is no more offensive than a Bush=Monkey poster, or an Obama/Nazi shirt, should police be able to stop and question you about those expressions?

Are you positively mental? It doesn’t matter who he’s flipping off. He could be walking through the park flipping off old ladies and toddlers, and he’s still within his right.

A mugger is already a criminal. If you want to equate the police to criminals, then by all means do.

Doing something which you know will incite someone who has no legal obligation to uphold your rights (and in fact someone whose very ‘living’ is made by violating them) is the opposite end of the scale from expressing yourself at a police officer whose sworn duty is to uphold the law and protect you from having your rights infringed.

You can certainly harass a cop, and if you flip him off, get up in his face and impede his ability to do his job… then you’re likely to face a legal arrest. Being stopped and questioned/detained because you made a gesture is not ok, period.

“While I am all for free speech and the right to express yourself…”

No, apparently you’re not. You either have free speech, or you don’t. Putting limitations on free speech based on whether somebody is a “douche” is not exactly free speech now, is it?

Why is it that whenever somebody says something like “I’m all for free speech” they immediately follow it with an example that proves the opposite? It’s quite like saying “I’m not a racist, but…”, and then following it with a racist comment.

The comments about this guy’s character or his judgment or whether or not he’s just being a jerk, while not beside the point, are missing the point.

Popular speech doesn’t need legal protection. It’s unpopular speech and expression that others would seek to hush that needs protection.

Not to put too fine a point on it, but it is exactly these kind of situations where popularity isn’t enough to protect the expression that the first amendment was crafted to address.

I, for one, am thankful that guys like this have the time, resources, and inclination to involve themselves in situations that diminish authoritarianism and help to strengthen my rights even though they come out looking worse for it.

Stories like these are becoming more and more frequent and I’m surprised that there’s not more outcry about them. Eventually, we (taxpayers) are the ones paying for these verdicts. There needs to be more accountability on these kinds of officers whether it be they pay some of the settlement or getting fired.

Is he allowed to tell the cop he’s number 1? Absolutely. Do I agree with him for doing it? No, but it doesn’t affect the cop in any way. When working with the public, you need to put the ego away.

Rob, I know! Being detained by cops during a traffic stop isn’t anything like being arrested, because you’re free to …. d’oh.

Guess what? He wasn’t free to go – his liberty was switched off while they fucked with him for his school-yard -but legal- gesture.

I’m not sure I’d do the same as he, but I’ll side with Ekas over you on this issue any day. He’s fighting back against cops that actively restricted his First Amendment rights. That’s what this site is about.

You? You sound like you’re fighting against freedom of expression, of the profane kind. Like it or not, whether it’s a t-shirt saying “MOTHERFUCKER”, a jacket with “FUCK THE DRAFT”, or digitus impudicus — all are protected forms of expression, baby, and that makes you the douchebag.

@capn Although I understand your point and would agree with it in most circumstances, I respectfully disagree in this particular instance. If its well established case law that you can flip off a public official, then he is not really helping us, he is just being a jerk. He is not advancing any sort of agenda or trailblazing new ground. I am not a photographer but what happens to photographers on this website (the ones that are following the law) is, I believe, important work to advance the rights of the citizens. I guess my ultimate problem with this is in the utility of the “speech”. What are we going to do, walk around all day flipping each other off? On the other hand, video taping an arrest in a public space within a reasonable distance, now that is utile.

His actions can be taken as assault? You have your head so far up your own arse you can watch yourself swallow. Get a grip Guy, are you a cop? In my book this man is a hero, good on him, I hope he wins his lawsuits. Screw the cops, their pricks, total pricks on a power trip, fuck em. 9 out of 10 times they more than likely deserve to be flipped off for fucking someone elses life up.

Just because some former retard jock from high school is wearing a badge made out of aluminium I’m supposed to respect them? I don’t think so. Most cops I’ve met have been total assholes, only on rare occasions have I met a cop that deserves the time of day, let alone any respect. What’s that? Cops are doing a dangerous job? Excuse me? What about teachers, nurses, firemen, bricklayers, steel workers? But you don’t see city streets shut down for those people when they die on the job, no, they are not as worthy as a cop. Is it just me or do other people get pissed off when a cop dies and needs to have a fucking parade in their “honour?”
There has been a false assumption laid upon society that cops are our betters. Don’t get me wrong, you flip someone off you need to be prepared to face the consequences but in this case it should be when the cop goes off duty, finds this guy, then beats his ass. The cops should not be abusing their perceived authority, but I know thats an impossible task for those donut eating retards to even contemplate.

I think he probably thinks of the cops as competition for the donuts.

Salvo – I don’t think you read my post. How do I prove the opposite. I never said he should not be allowed to to flip off a cop. Go at it. I personally don’t think it’s a good thing to do. He is just asking for getting the cops attention. It is in Human Nature to use power when you have it so of course they will tend to him.

I think he is a douche for doing what he did, based on the assumption he just did it for “fun”.
He is a douche just as much as anyone who flips off for being that race. Generalization (as in “all cops are assholes”) is the root of many problems.

I see boingboing finally caught up. http://www.boingboing.net/2010/03/03/mans-sues-for-right.html
Michaelk42´s last blog ..Hard to let go

Jody,

So when someone is breaking into your house at night, you expect a bricklayer to come rushing to your rescue? While there are other dangerous jobs out there, police work is one of the few where a person knowingly runs towards a dangerous situation to try to stop it.

In many examples like the North Hollywood Shootout, cops rushed towards the sound of the guns to try to stop the criminals. You can throw your crap around all you want but the truth is that police work is different and it takes a certain courage to do the job.
Johnny Law´s last blog ..Priorities

My only complaint about this is that whatever money he is awarded will probably be paid by the taxpayers.

-jcr

There is no probably about it — of course it will. Also, it will be the tax payers footing the bill for the trial. Its a no win situation all around with this fool.

I feel if he’s directing the insult to a specific individual, he’s threatening them and he is being justly confronted by the police. If he was standing around and waving the finger to everyone and not singling people out, that’s a different story.
Guy Freeman´s last blog ..Quote of the Day

Why not stand in front of a school and wear a t-shirt Kids are delicious and flip off teachers
Guy Freeman´s last blog ..Quote of the Day

As far as beefing about the money goes; yes, the taxpayers are stuck footing the bill.

The same taxpayers are also the one’s who elected the representatives that (directly or indirectly) have the authority to respond to the question of how officers comport themselves on the job.

If the taxpayers don’t like paying for the results of poor judgment on the part of their elected and appointed officials, they can make an issue of it and elect officials that more carefully educate and control the conduct of their subordinate LEO.

The people ultimately responsible are the one’s ultimately paying: where’s the problem??

Hey joey go fuck yourself you stupid piece of worthless shit. Wow my right to express is so great. Those of you who immediately assume this dipshit is telling the truth about how it went down are the true fools. ever think maybe he did commit the violations you stupid ignorant fucks. Oh right u cockless pricks hate the police because. You are too gutless to ever be one

There’s a difference between a threat & an insult. Sometimes it might be a fine line, but in this case I think the guy just wanted to make his statement. I seriously doubt the officer felt threatened.

Robert Ekas is a saint. We should all be appreciative of what he stands for.
Cats and Dogs sleeping together…haha, I chuckle loudly.

There are plenty of people that deserve far more respect for both the danger and importance of the jobs they do than cops. Farmers, ranchers and fishermen consistently make the top ten in the most dangerous jobs, cops never do. And the food that goes on our table is FAR more important than anything cops do.

I’m not going to call a farmer when my house is broken into, a report from a farmer won’t be accepted by my insurance company. I have to have an “official” report which is the primary service provided by cops in such an instance.

More likely who will have to be called, however, is a coroner. I am prepared to deal with such situations.

When seconds count, cops are minutes away.

My first impulse was, sure he had the right, but why did he do it? Well, to *show* that he had the right. I guess that is reason enough.

I don’t use that kind of “language” myself, but if you are going to observe the First Amendment at all you have to acknowledge the right of someone to use offensive language or gestures.

I have Ron Paul and Campaign for Liberty stickers on my car and one day I got mooned from a car that passed me. I realize that he did mean disrespect, but it backfired on him because I was thrilled to pieces, and smiled from ear to ear. I got to look at a naked guy.

If they make a gesture I *don’t* like, I ignore it, and the policemen should have too.
Alice Lillie´s last blog ..The Works of Murray N. Rothbard, Part II

@ Keith

You can make the ridiculous that police work is nothing remarkable but the majority of the public knows the truth. I’ve had many people come up to me and thank me for doing that job. I know it enrages the cop haters but people understand that there is something significantly different about a job that requires you to run TOWARDS an armed robbery in progress.

You’re repeating yourself. I, personally, have run towards dangerous situations to help. No paycheck. No union. No “sovereign immunity”. No costume and piece of aluminum on my chest. No gold plated health plan. No paid life insurance. No unmatched pension or early retirement.

Plenty of people will put themselves in dangerous situations to help their fellow man with none of the benefits you get. And, we won’t whine about someone with a camera following us or someone flipping us off.

Farmers and ranchers and fishermen put themselves into far more dangerous situations on a daily basis for far less return. But, without them you wouldn’t be able to do your job, either.

Quit putting yourself on a pedestal.

And, I never said I “hate cops”. I love the rare peace officer. I simply hate law enforcement officers.

How do you describe yourself? By your pseudonym it’s apparent you consider your first job to be to “enforce the law”.

And, if you truly believed in what you say you would be using your real name and not hiding.

Yep. The same reason I carry a sidearm. Because I have the right and a right that isn’t exercised is a right that you’ve given up.