Pixiq

If the law allows for it, then open carrying a weapon is insufficient grounds for a stop even with previous armed robberies, did these guys match their descriptions? And would people open carrying likely be the perps? Really?

I also agree, I don't feel it is necessary to carry openly, but I won't make that decision for others. If it is lawful then it is lawful. I am not going to accept harrassment of anybody performing a lawful activity because the cops don't like it. The restrictions while a fairly long list are pretty straighforward. I prefer to carry concealed (legally), I don't want a potential perp to know I might be armed.

It would be easier to have sympathy for these guys if they weren't uneducated rednecks. He shouldn't have talked so much. It didn't help his case.

i think the cops did great tell you the truth...this open carry thing is nuts...if i were a LEO i probably would have acted the same way! KUDOS to the cops! please in order to protect my reputation, dont tell anyone i said that!

a camera is one thing...no one has ever died from a photograph, but this open carry gun thing i cant condone!

Lawmakers are once again attempting to end this practice with AB144.

Why they can't understand that the bad guys don't OC is beyond me. We already have an abundant amount of laws pertaining to firearm ownership/possession (which coincidentally is pointed out after each story of a PD standoff with a felon on parole) so why they dont get it is dumbfounding.

The cop should not have turned off the camera since it had nothing to do with the investigation and was not just property, but otherwise I agree with other statements, he handled the situation quite professionally. It is clear he was being baited and chastised by these folks that acted merely to be argumentative. They seem to be wanting a major confrontation and do themselves great disservice in their failure to speak and conduct themselves well.

At one time I was stopped for a tail light out. I told the officer I had a CCW permit and that I was carrying. He thanked me for telling him and just advised me my light was out and went on his way.

I think we should expect the same reaction in an open carry state.

If a cop gets sand in his mangina over lawful citizens carrying weapons under their 2nd Amendment rights, that cop needs to find another line of work.

I hear McDonald's is hiring.

I don't like OC, never have BUT, if you read the link Carlos provided, for most people in California there is no concealed carry option.

From http://californiaopencarry.org/faq.html "There are many reasons to Open Carry, and often the discussion becomes a philosophical debate betwteen the merits of Open Carry vs. Concealed Carry. However, in California these discussions are moot, since California is not a Shall-Issue CCW state, and most residents cannot get a concealed carry permit."

The solution is to allow concealed carry instead of OC. I know the gun control people won't like this, but if OC is the only option people are given, then they are going to open carry no matter how many cops it aggravates.

I CC with permit. I'm also Infragard and I'm a certified NRA pistol safety instructor.

Open carry should be legal in all 50 states (and not unloaded as in CA).

Just my 2 cents.

Yes, these men were testing the system. Just as photo/videographers featured here are often testing the system. And at least the tools these men were were displaying are specifically mentioned in the Constitution.

It's not about the tool, it's about the principle: it's about liberty. As Dr. Franklin said, if we don't hang together, most assuredly we shall all hang separately.

That woman at the end was quite handsome

The question remains, why did these officers approach the knuckleheads in the first place? (I got the impression they were there on a call, 911 call, though not clear what made me think that.)

One of the LEOs said, "it is an officer safety issue." Does that mean a Calif. officer can legally detain every person they spot openly carrying a firearm? That needs clarification.

It also sounded like one of the officers was avoiding a pocket search, performing a pat-down instead, seemed like a legal threshold for a Terry stop? I'm not sure.

I'm curious for Johnny Law's, or any other LEO's, objective interpretation of this video.

I don't "get" open carry, or concealed carry for that matter. But I'm Canadian and we don't love our guns like our friends south of the border seem to.

Sorry to sound snide but I just don't get it.

I don't think it matters if you open or concealed carry as long as it's allowed. Here in PA it's easy to get a Concealed Carry Permit if you have a clean record and it's ok to open carry except in Philly unless you have a CCP, in which case you can open or concealed carry in Philly. In some ways I think open carry is better because others know you're carrying before they start something. I think the likelyhood of someone starting something in a store that they know a bunch of people are carrying in smaller. The Wal-Mart in town was getting robbed not too long ago and a guy with a concealed weapon put a stop to it. The perp ran off and no shots were exchanged.

As far as Canada and guns that's kind of funny. I'm not sure why it's so different when you cross that border. Might have something to do with the English and the battle of Montreal.

I've started to carry when taking photos at night. I'm just getting in from doing tonights work and checking email. Since I'm on the street with a bunch of camera gear you can be a target for a theft or other harassment. Since I was in the city tonight and lots of drunks around I was concealed. If I was out in the country without many people around I'd probably be open.

I usually prefer to comment on your Facebook posts, but I thought I'd chime in here because we have more of a mixed audience at Pixiq.

I am an open carry advocate. I can't enjoy the practice in Texas, just as you can't in Florida (dressing to conceal in both states can be *brutal* in the summer!), but I have OC'd in states where it's legal. There are 43 states where OC is legal to various degrees, but in quite a few of those states you'll garner negative police attention if you actually exercise your rights. California is one of those states.

Under California law, police are allowed to to check an openly-carried handgun to make sure it's unloaded. This is called an "e-check", after Penal Code 12031(e). Verifying that the gun is unloaded is the *only* authority police have under this law. Running serial numbers, demanding ID and running criminal checks on those who are stopped, etc., are not authorized under PC 12031(e), and they're not authorized under Terry v. Ohio and related Supreme Court cases; there is no "reasonable articulable suspicion that crime is afoot", so even the e-check itself probably couldn't survive scrutiny.

Officer Duran's attempt to educate about statutory and case law was hilariously full of fail, but we don't have the space to get into that here.

As to the conduct of both sides: the gun guys were initially perfectly calm and cooperative, and only asked for clarification about what was being asked of them. Black Shirt asserted his rights and made sure everyone knew it. He didn't consent, but he didn't cooperate.

Team Blue, on the other hand, initiated the contact as a felony stop, with shouted commands and handcuffs at the initial contact, despite the total lack of reasonable articulable suspicion that crime was afoot. This is one of the differences between 1A and 2A activism: cameras seldom result in felony stop techniques at the initial contact.

I didn't finish listening to the 2nd video, but it was clear Duran was in full "Me speak, you listen and obey!" mode. I don't blame Black Shirt for going on a bit of a rant; he was on an adrenalin rush after remaining calm during a threatening situation. When his hands were freed, so was his tongue.

The open carry movement, generally speaking, supports *all* constitutional rights. If you read the forums at opencarry.org, you'll find huge support for free speech and the right to record, a general distrust of unchecked government, and even strong opposition to drug prohibition (and some of you may have thought all gun owners were right-wing religious Republicans, eh?)

The National Rifle Association is tolerated there, but not held in high regard; it's often noted that "NRA" stands for "Negotiating Rights Away". If the Society of Professional Journalists had the same attitude as the NRA, they would eagerly negotiate laws that gave protection to their members and other "credentialed professional journalists", while selling out independent media and ordinary citizens who want to do the same thing.

Okay, this is too long already, so: /rant

It makes me sick how officers go onto people's personal property and arrest them for videotaping them from their personal property, etc..

But this is just ridiculous. The officers were being pretty damn respectful under the circumstances. The guy filming was very rude to them as evidenced--and he kept repeating himself over and over, which quickly annoyed me; also he wouldn't let the officer talk--he kept interrupting him:

The officer was trying to explain to him that the place had been RECENTLY robbed and that he was SCARING PEOPLE with that openly exposed firearm. The person taping should of had a bit of sympathy and respect for these recent victims--after the officer put things into perspective--instead of trying to prove his point and continuing to be disrespectful to the officer; (it's obvious the photographer is very self-centered.)

Since carrying a loaded firearm is illegal, I believe the officers have a right to detain and question him.. and verify the firearms were unloaded. You do silly shit like this and scare people, expect some questioning from the law.

He was NOT arrested, given back his firearms and was even allowed to continue taping.

I generally don't have much respect for many officers that violate the rights of photographers, but in this case, the photographer is FAIL.

I believe the officer should have not pressed the stop button on the camera, and I think the officer quickly realized he shouldn't of either. So he allowed him to continue recording. Everyone makes mistakes and I don't think that was that big of one considering the officer respected the videoing of him afterwards.

Actually this video has made me feel a little more comfortable and respectful of our police--an opposite effect of what the person taping wanted I am sure.

with todays economy the cops are told to write more tickets and will try to meet quotas and raise revenue so why cant people do the same to crooked cops and thugs preying on citizens to pad their bottom line. when we do it its called baiting when they do it it called a sting operation a rose by any other name smells the same. and remember what you see the beat cops do reflects what the leadership allow them to do.and what about the safety of the citizens in this situation they put you at their mercy and can beat and shoot you even handcuffed and cry i was scared for my life and walk free.

I’m a gun owner, but I don’t believe I have to flaunt it everywhere I go...

This is a very strange statement coming from you, Carlos. If you want gun owners to support your right to photograph, then you should also support gun owners' right to carry openly.

It’s bad enough I get harassed for carrying cameras. I can imagine the issues I will have by openly carrying my guns.

Nobody's trying to force you personally to carry guns.

But if the law states that people are allowed to open carry guns...

If any law attempts to prevent people from carrying guns, that law conflicts with the supreme law of the land. You seem strangely reticent about standing up for rights that are every bit as basic, and important, as the right to photograph without harassment.

I love it. At 2:20
"You're gonna ruin the whole open carry policy [by open carrying]"
Like telling people they're gonna ruin the 1st Amendment by "writin stuff."

"I can also understand police can be spooked by people carrying guns."

I'm spooked by cops carrying guns since so many of them are nothing more than thugs with badges.