Pixiq

Tsk, Carlos. You spend the majority of your time trying to establish that they are “assholes”, then give a tiny nod to the fact tha they were unjustly imprisoned and their cameras confiscated?

So they preached. So what?

The dragged along recording equipment because there were harassed the year before, and lo and behold, they were right – it happened again. Arrested on BS charges, and brought to trial on the same. Sounds like another photographer I know of.

Your believe in the First Amendment isn’t defined by how much you believe it protects your closest allies, but by how much you believe it protects your worst enemies. In this, Carlos, I think you fall short.

For the record, although I was raised a Christian, I don’t hold much with them. I follow my own path.

Oh, and Carlos? Every time I’ve posted tonight, I’ve gotten a “500 Internal” error. Might be something you’d want to look into

“internal server error”

My bad

I knew it wouldn’t take long for someone to criticize my opinion but the point is, these guys can hardly expect to get sympathy for being harassed for their religion when they essentially want to eradicate the Muslim religion from the United States.

I’ll take a look into those issues. I’ve been having tech issues over the last two weeks.

I disapprove of what you say, but I will defend to the death your right to say it.

Carlos take the time to read the Koran, with one thing in mind. That what is written on the first page has less worth then what is written on the last page. A basic rule of Islam in interpreting the Koran.”Islam is a peaceful religion” is on a page before the book tells its followers to KILL> GO read it Carlos. I have. IT is the old testament on steroids. The truth is that there burying women up to there necks and stoning them to death RIGHT NOW> The first amendment better protect the people who are speaking out. I will speak out against any group of wackos who want to make this country a theocracy. THEY DO in this case BOTH sets of Wackos. there is no question about that they preach it from the Pulpit.
I HATE PAT ROBERTSON TOO>
SO Carlos take the Time to Read the Koran. Then tell me its a peaceful religion. People who say that Have not Read the BOOK.

Rich,

I’m not going to read the Koran because to me, religion is a waste of time.

I’ve read the First Amendment and that establishes Freedom of Religion in this country. For everybody.

It’s hypocritical to expect people to respect your religion when you go around disrespecting their religion.

It’s that simple.

I respect other people’s right to believe in whatever religion they want, but neither I nor anyone else is required to respect what they believe.

Religion is not immune to criticism, from anyone. Whether it be from atheists or from wackjobs that happen to believe in a slightly different version of an invisible man in the sky that watches everything you do.
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The three most violent and costly religions are all trying to establish supremacy right here in the US. They are all embedded into our so-called government now.

The jews, christains, muslums, are having a blood fest in the middle east, and mostly funded by the US tax payer. But I see the same storm slowly brewing right here in America now.

All religions are, or have been violent at some point. This human nature.

Man, Carlos… you come off kind of douchy in this. The site is based on harassment by the police when using cameras not your view on Christian apologetics. Let the video speak for itself and drop the commentary.

Carlos – your doing a GREAT JOB!

anyway…..

I just hope the comment about “so-called libertarians” refers to people who falsely claim to be libertarians. Not the libertarian party or ideology that supports open borders to everyone.

and…

yup the koran, just like the bible, requires killing all deniers.

Dandy Dan,

That’s why I say they’re “so-called libertarians”.

Man, Carlos… you come off kind of douchy in this. The site is based on harassment by the police when using cameras not your view on Christian apologetics. Let the video speak for itself and drop the commentary.

In other words, I should defend everybody’s First Amendment rights but God forbid I use my First Amendment rights to state my opinion?

I have to side with Wood on his arrest video. It is very clear that the group was acting very peacefully, and only preaching to those people that came to them.

Regardless of his personal religious views, his rights, and the rights of his crew were violated, as you stated Carlos.

The reason you’re getting so much heat on this one Carlos, is that this country has become so politically correct, that it has turned people into a bunch of bitchy little girls. People whine every time a religion is mocked (regardless of what it is). People need to harden the fuck up.

Carlos:

I have a lot of respect for you & this website. But you seem to be suffering a pretty major brain fart as to what the First Amendment means. You may think these “Apologetics” are hypocrites, but there is no “hypocrisy” exception to First Amendment protection. The overriding issue is that the government is, generally speaking, not entitled to punish people for expressing unpopular views, or for expressing their views in a way that is inconvenient for or unpalatable to the government. Your level of sympathy or respect for the people who were arrested is irrelevant.

Carlos,

There’s nothing wrong with trying to preach to convert people. It might be a little strange to preach at a Muslim festival, but the Constitution was written broadly for all of us and not just for certain favored groups. Its protections apply to wacky religions and mainstream religions. The entire point is to protect the least favored groups in society, because if they are protected than all of us are protected.

All this nonsense about “persecution” and his views on the Ground Zero mosque (which actually are pretty mainstream, if you look at the polls on the issue) really dilutes the message here that the Police of Dearborn (whose Chief by the way is Muslim) arrested someone for engaging in religious speech and for filming their interactions in public. The only persecution was done by the police.

I’m wondering how outrageous you find the police actions to be in this case. I hate the Black Panthers and the KKK for the racist groups that they are, but if the police did to them what was done to these Acts 17 people, I would find it outrageous. The government is a much, much bigger danger than some wacky group.

Some religious zealots, like some law enforcement zealots, forget the boundaries they are supposed to observe. Anything and everything goes when they cite The Word that directs their divine interventions. If we heathens dare to question The Word, the Almighty shall smite us.

I don’t know what piece you guys are reading but I never said these guys are not entitled to First Amendment protections because of their whacky religion.

I made it very clear that they were.

I just personally found it hard to sympathize with them because of their hypocrisy.

And Sydney, you are contradicting yourself when you say it’s ok to try and stop the building of the Islam cultural center because “mainstream” America holds that view.

Imagine the outcry if Muslims were trying to prevent the building of a Christian cultural center in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood.

Carlos

“Imagine the outcry if Muslims were trying to prevent the building of a Christian cultural center in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood.”

If the Christians killed 3,000 Muslims in a fiery explosion in that neighborhood you might have a point.

Its funny, there was a mosque burned in Georgia not long ago. Turned out the guy who did it was Muslim. Huh…

Well Carlos, I love your blog. I really do. But….

The essence of the first amendment is a limitation on government power, not tolerance by private individuals (as it regards religion) of all religion or any particular religion. Though Wood may come across as obnoxious, I fail to see anything in the videos where he is calling on the government to prohibit the practice of Islam or stop the NYC mosque. Until I see that, I’m not seeing hypocrisy in terms of civil rights. For the record, I have not visited Wood’s website nor do I intend to nor do I think the government should interfere with locating mosques.

Thanks for listening and keep up the good work.

Wow. I’ve never seen so many people call Carlos wrong while he’s been so right.
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I knew it wouldn’t take long for someone to criticize my opinion but the point is, these guys can hardly expect to get sympathy for being harassed for their religion when they essentially want to eradicate the Muslim religion from the United States.

Paging Godwin…
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And Sydney, you are contradicting yourself when you say it’s ok to try and stop the building of the Islam cultural center because “mainstream” America holds that view.

Anyone who knows anything about religious warfare knows that the act of building a temple on the site of a battle of any scale is a symbolic act of conquest. The real reason why the Muslim world is so upset over the idea of the Dome of the Rock being replaced with the 3rd Jewish Temple is precisely because it would unequivocally say “the Jews own this land, you lost, get over it.”
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The three Abrahamic religions – Christianity, Islam, and Judaism – are ALL whacky for the same reason:

They believe that an angry Bronze age sky god is appeased by a parent obeying a divine dictate to kill his offspring.

Islam and Judaism argue over which son Abraham was commanded to slaughter by the Bronze age god.

Christianity carries through with the torture and slaughter of an innocent person as a means of making adherents better people.

Christianity is as whacky and evil as the Mayans slaughtering virgins to appease gods.

One good thing about Christianity is getting to drink wine in church during a ritually cannibalistic service some call “Swallow the Leader.”

Kol. Klink wrote: “One good thing about Christianity is getting to drink wine in church during a ritually cannibalistic service some call “Swallow the Leader.” ”

HAAAAAAAAAAAAAA!!!!!!!!!!!!!

BTW, Wood is spot on when he talks about Muslims smiling in our faces and cursing us in their hearts. Read Patia’s book, The Muslim Mind.

This could have been an anti-immigration rally, pro-immigration rally, a Nazi rally, an AA meeting…it doesn’t matter. The point remains the same. The rights of the people filming were violated. If they are trespassing, then ask them to leave, and then arrest them for trespassing if they don’t obey. But applying disturbing the peace in this way is criminal. I think it comes down to too many uneducated cops. If we required higher degrees and more mental examinations to become a police officer, incidents like this would be less likely.

Carlos, did you totally miss out on the fact that many Muslims in Dearborn are going to protest the arrest of these Christians proselytizers?

And this was just posted on a Dearborn community FB page. http://www.youtube.com/v/Smw9QuH1xkA&color1=0xb1b1b1&color2=0xd0d0d0&hl=...

I’m pretty dissapointed with you, Carlos. It seems like your hate for all things religious has over shadowed the actual issue at hand-unlawful arrest for photography/videography.

I read your blog a lot and really enjoy the stuff you post. Sorry to see such an exception.

Hi Carlos-

Long time listener, first time caller. You do good work. You’re in good company:

“If we don’t believe in freedom of expression for people we despise, we don’t believe in it at all. ” -Noam Chomsky

I agree, you have the right to say what you will but it is kinda hypocritical for this man to say his right of religion is being trampled on.

What right? For you to going around telling other people there religion is wrong?

Eyahh. That is the reason why I personally don’t believe in religion in official groups.

What right? For you to going around telling other people there religion is wrong?

People do it all the time with politics…
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Carlos,

I don’t think I’m better than others and I don’t think I’m extreme. I think we’re all sinners and we’ve all fallen short of God’s glory (Romans 3:23-24) which means I have problems just like everyone else.

Please reconcile Monotheism, Polytheism, Pantheism and Dualism. Only one can be correct so only one can be right. If one can be right then there is only one right way.

Chuck

man, carlos – i really enjoy reading your blog – it’s funny how when you bring up religion, everyone wants to share their views and have somehow interpreted what you wrote (an opinion piece of a news event) as a direct attack on them. i hope you’re getting as good a laugh at the irony as i am.

these guys can hardly expect to get sympathy for being harassed for their religion when they essentially want to eradicate the Muslim religion from the United States.

This sentence seems to run counter to the main thrust of your blog here. You’re letting your view on religion mitigate (however slightly) the importance of the first amendment for all Americans.

When the government is the one doing the harrassing, then yes, this group should expect sympathy, from all Americans. You’re entitled to your opinions just like they are, but why add your commentary? By adding it you are taking away from the thuggish behavior of the police. You made this post more about their religion than the violation of their rights.

Carlos, I’m sorry your point was missed by so many of the religious crowd on this particular post. I believe the entire point was that it doesn’t matter what any particular individual feels about the character or idealogy of the Acts 17 or Muslim people. In fact, it’s better if noone addressing this issue is convinced by either religious group. Because the entire point is that they were peacefully doing what religious opponenets do: hopelessly spewing their idiotic views at each other. That’s exactly what they were doing when the Police arrested Acts 17 Christians, and not Muslims. This is obviously religious persecution.

And yes, your anti-religious ranting offended me somewhat; but that’s when I realized that’s the essence of first-amendment rights: you have the right to offend other people with your words; we all do.

“Regardless if Wood is an instigator, an asshole or an oedipal sociopath, the videos do not indicate he and the others were breaking the law.”

Thanks, this was another great post.

And Sydney, you are contradicting yourself when you say it’s ok to try and stop the building of the Islam cultural center because “mainstream” America holds that view.

Imagine the outcry if Muslims were trying to prevent the building of a Christian cultural center in a predominantly Muslim neighborhood.

Carlos

I will disagree with you on this because 9/11 is still relatively fresh in the minds of many Americans. It is to our generations what Pearl Harbor was to a previous generations. Imagine if the Japanese wanted to construct a shrine across the street from the Arizona Memorial at Pearl in 1950.

In due time the memory of 9/11 will fade, just like the memory of Pearl no longer has the impact it did 50 years ago, but we need time. The Islamic Cultural Center is at the wrong place and at the wrong time for now…

You need to keep to your focus and stay away from the politics. Yes they are assholes, but much the same has been said of you, me, and others who are exercising our rights. I don’t like their approach either, but PNIAC. You lose significant credibility when you stray from your basic premise.

Rights were not trampled here all I see is a bunch of morons trying to ruin everyone’s good time by causing shit and filming it.

chuck // Jul 19, 2010 at 7:25 AM
… I think we’re all sinners and we’ve all fallen short of God’s glory (Romans 3:23-24) which means I have problems just like everyone else.

Please reconcile Monotheism, Polytheism, Pantheism and Dualism. Only one can be correct so only one can be right. If one can be right then there is only one right way.

Chuck
****************************************
Chuck,
If you think you are sinner, it is OK to me. You can think whatever you are, but it is really wrong when you assume that people are just stupid as you.

To me, religions are joke, wasting time. They are only for people who cannot think. You are one of them.

“In other words, I should defend everybody’s First Amendment rights but God forbid I use my First Amendment rights to state my opinion?”

Nah, I think people just want you to segregate your free speech posts from other opinion posts. Most people have a hard time segregating for themselves when they’re expecting an article purely about free-speech. Don’t take it personally… I’m sure if you just wrote the same stuff in a different category on the site (and made it apparent), people wouldn’t seem as upset.
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Actually, I take that back. I think just changing the order in what you said would probably keep most people from complaining:

“These guys have free-speech rights, but it’s hard to sympathize with their message”

message sounds worse than

“I can’t sympathize with their message, but they deserve the right nonetheless”
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It seems to me that most of the critical comments come from people who read the post with their biases instead of their eyes.

After all, one of the first things Carlos said was that “the video proves” that the missionaries were arrested “for essentially expressing their First Amendment rights” despite the fact that “no laws were broken.”

“I think they’re hypocrites,” he essentially says, “but that doesn’t change the facts.”

How that “falls short” on a First Amendment standard escapes me.
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Two other quick things:

Angelo: The last two paragraphs of the post do say it in the 0rder you suggested. You’d think that would make a difference, it being the last thing people read before commenting, but apparently it didn’t. People had already made their minds up.

Chuck: Any religion that claims to be monotheistic while holding the doctrine of The Trinity (and yes, I do know what it is; all those years of Catechism did not go completely to waste) has its own problems with counting.
LarryE recently posted..Attention- strategies- and sides

A few things wrong with this post:

1. Meaningless use of the word persecute.

2. Off-topic personal attacks of Mr. Woods.

3. Absurd assertion of the “essence” of the First Amendment.

Either Carlos was off his game or has been lucky till now.

I really like the point of your site but I was one of those somewhat taken aback by your ad hominen attack on Wood. The video, unless it was edited, is pretty clear cut and, within the context of the site, that should be the focus. You don’t like relligion — got it — but so what? And the stuff about mental institutions and his father???? Geez, what does any of that, even if true, have to do with the arrest??

Why the quip about libertarians? Libertarians support open borders. Yes, I noticed the “so-called” qualification you used, but that seems to imply that libertarians aren’t what the name might suggest.

Perhaps the term you were really looking for is “Republican.”