Pixiq

His answer should have been “Because this is a public place and I want to.”

I like what you were doing :

- try to keep the camera on the subjects
- ask for names and badge numbers
- because ” i can film in public”
- i do not have to answer your questions
- do not give them any information ( your wife’s car, they set you up on that information)

keep at it, keep us posted

Thanks

This guy was on the right track, but he obviously didn’t no about the whole, “You are in a public space so there is no expectation of privacy” thing.

These cops acted like celebrities dealing with the paparazzi. “Because I can,” is a legitimate answer, but for the sake of covering yourself, we (photographers) should always mention “public space” and the lack of an expectation of privacy while conducting business in public.
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Ridiculous. And even if the charges are dropped (which they will), the intimidation has already done its job. FOLLOW THE FUCKING LAW.

BTW, I feel so much safer.

Until the sheeple change into people, we’re screwed, because the general response you get from this is: Well, maybe he shouldn’t have been taking pictures…If he just answered their questions…

AARRGGHHH.

I think it’s best not get into a conversation with these losers, see my ID? Piss off! Just say your on public property and can film, goodbye. The man who filmed this has guts and patience, wish there were more people like him. The filth sound like the mafia in this video, one in the same me thinks.
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Why are you filming us? ans: because of the 1st amendment. Who are you? why are you here? ans: I’m not answering any of your questions until my attorney gets here (5th amendment). What right do you have to film us? ans: civil rights are given to us by God not the State. How come you are the only one that has ever come out here to film us? ans: Am I free to go or am I under arrest?

Carlos thanks for giving us credit at the end. The copblock.org team. We love what you do, keep up the good work.
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As others have said, don’t answer any questions by the cops. If you plan on filming cops or put yourself in situations where you do, don’t carry any ID. Just ignore their questions. Don’t say a word.

If you’re going to say anything at all, don’t say it to the police, say it TO THE CAMERA, as if you’re a narrator of a nature scene:

“Here we see the classic intimidation technique of the police. The silverback male officer appears to be the leader of this troop. Notice how I remain silent pursuant to my 5th amendment rights, as police officers in the wild are often deadly. This intimidation technique is often done as a prelude to mating, as the police are fond of “screwing someone over” for doing nothing wrong….”

While it’s an interesting story, I have a very hard time taking anything seriously when it’s published by a blog that uses so much sarcastic rhetoric comparing police to “gangbangers” and labeling them as gang members.

It’s hardly objective journalism, and it only appeals to like-minded individuals who are predisposed to think that all LEOs are evil thugs whose sole intent is to strip you of your humanity.

@Jay R: No here thinks that *all* LEOs are evil thugs. I wouldn’t want to live someplace without LEOs. I do want LEOs — who work for me — to uphold by the laws that have been written and not make shit up because they can or they don’t like what someone is doing.

In this specific case, these LEOs used their power to intimidate this guy and, imho, illegally arrest him — while acting just like a bunch of gangbangers. If you visit PINAC on any regular basis, you’ll realize that Carlos is a sarcastic mofo (as am I), and under the sarcastic words are serious truths and issues that people need to wake up to.

Jay R. wrote: “I have a very hard time taking anything seriously when it’s published by a blog that uses so much sarcastic rhetoric comparing police to “gangbangers” and labeling them as gang members.”

I don’t.

I’ve read PINAC for years, now – I’m referring to “copblock” which is where the story originated. If you’d read that article, you’d see the language and rhetoric that I’m referring to.

It’s simply unprofessional – it’s like calling names in a debate. All it does is alienate the people you want to sway. You can’t, and don’t need to, convert the converted.

There was no reason to intimidate the man for engaging in perfectly lawful activity. What other reason would the cops have? Public safety? Officer safety? They were threatening him, and all the time were thinking that it’s a shame that filming cops isn’t a crime because they’d love to have kicked his ass for it.

I grew up in Jersey. The cops there are ALL thugs. All of them.

I’m not, and have no interest in, defending the officers’ actions. They are indefensible in their decision to harass the photographer.

Sweeping generalizations about LEOs being thugs are little different than the “all photographers are terrorists” generalization.

The representation that all LEOs are thugs is patently ridiculous. You’ve certainly not interacted with every cop in NJ. You’ve likely not even interacted with every cop in your precinct.

Of course you are correct. Not ALL cops act like thugs. However, there’s a lot to that thing about how 95% of the cops are giving the other 5% a bad name.

The reality is that the numbers are reversed, however. It’s the 5% giving the 95% the bad name (with a few very sad, very disturbing exceptions – usually in small towns).

I’m curious who owned the property. My thoughts are that one of the many they were so aggressive might have been because they didn’t have permission to do what they were doing?

Thoughts?

Jay R. // May 15, 2010 at 6:27 PM

The reality is that the numbers are reversed, however. It’s the 5% giving the 95% the bad name (with a few very sad, very disturbing exceptions – usually in small towns).

OMIGOD! What galaxy did you just fly in from?!!

I think I must’ve missed the sarcasm!! Sorry.

It’s known as “The Milky Way” – somewhere in the perception known as “Reality,” which is the polar opposite of “Conspiracy Theory.”

Your desire to make all cops the bad guys doesn’t make it so. The vast majority are just normal people. A minuscule minority are “bad cops,” and even the widest-reaching corruption scandals only touch a handful cops in medium and large cities. There have been (very few) cases where entire small-town police forces have been “bad,” however.

It’s just one of those facts that you should learn to deal with.

Jay R. wrote: “Your desire to make all cops the bad guys doesn’t make it so. The vast majority are just normal people. A minuscule minority are “bad cops,” and even the widest-reaching corruption scandals only touch a handful cops in medium and large cities.”

Well, I’m sure the vast majority of cops in these towns and small cities in California’s central valley are pretty decent cops at 12:00 noon where there are plenty of people to observe their actions. I’d not want to have to deal with any cop anywhere at 3:00 AM on a deserted road. I’m sure that, “With all due respect officer, I decline to let you search my vehicle” would pretty much be a wasted effort. As for your assertion that even the widest reaching corruption scandals only touch a hand full of cops in medium and large cities, well, I guess you never heard of the Serpico case? And as far as I’m concerned the reason more of them don’t get caught up with is due to the closing of ranks and the collect lockjaw that sets in when big scandals erupt.

Rusty, it’s not nearly that bad.

There needs to be more patriots in LE and fire departments sneak hidden cameras into the ridiculous training DHS and the FBI are giving. I’ve only seen one on you tube so far. I’d like to see the part where they train cops how people convert cameras into firearms. That ought to be a hoot. That makes sense now, as photographers who shoot large and medium format are harassed more often than those shooting smaller formats. They can put larger shells and more rounds in the big cameras.

I really want to know what NJ town this is? Does anyone know. I might have to talk to there superiors with a video camera. Seriously I really want to know what town these Fascists are in. I someone knows please respond.

It was in Runnemede. The copblock team….

thank you very much. That is very close to Camden the murder capital of America last I checked. Thank you very much.

Arresting him wasn’t illegal, he incriminated himself.
10:20 Is that your car? It’s my wife’s car.
10:28 Did you operate this vehicle today? sure I did
He just gave them the right to see his ID and arrest him for the cracked windshield.

People need to learn just one thing about dealing with the police… SHUT UP.

If a police officer comes up to you and starts asking questions. The only words out of your mouth should be, “Am I being detained?”(this is if you are not driving. If you are driving, different laws apply).

If the answer is “No.” then any conversation beyond that is consensual. Either walk away or ignore the cop. And yes you can ignore him.

If the answer is “yes.”, then you need to know the laws in your state. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stop_and_Identify_statutes There are 24 states with stop and identify laws. I know that here in wisconsin, if you are being detained(a terry stop), then you have to give you name. DON’T LIE to a cop ever. It will only get you in more trouble. Check out that wikipedia link to see what the laws are in your state.

I can’t stress enough the concept of SHUT UP. If you are stopped on the street and not driving the only words out of your mouth should be “Am I being detained”.

Yeah, I’ve heard them 357 magnum Nikons are REALLY dangerous!!

Ver are your papers? Are your papers in order? SHOW ME YOUR PAPERS!!!!! VE KNOW VER YOU LIVE!

This type of gestapo bullshit needs to stop. And to DRG, this must be the only guy on the planet to actually be arrested for a cracked windshield. (Which isn’t illegal if he isn’t behind the wheel at the time of the citation.)
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I agree, the only sound should be the sound of your camera clicking away, photographing their badge and face, over and over and over. If they have nothing to hide then they have nothing to fear do they.
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Its always best to just zip it.

The best things to say to a cop:

“Am I being detained, or am I free to go.”

“I will not voluntarily give up any of my rights.”

If all cops are not bad, then why when one beats someone soft all of them that were there get laringitis ?

OK. Some body had to say it.

“It’s hardly objective journalism, and it only appeals to like-minded individuals who are predisposed to think that all LEOs are evil thugs whose sole intent is to strip you of your humanity.”

What do you expect the reaction to be, when LEOs harass someone for exercising their Constitutional rights, and are not violating the law? Your comment isn’t objective, either.

In the article the cops said:

“They ordered him to remove his hands from his pockets and informed him how some people go through the trouble of MAKING GUNS out of CAMERAS.”

Well Gee.. I’ll have to learn how to do that. I’ve always wanted..

THE SEARS & ROEBUCK GOLD INLAID ENGRAVED COLT SINGLE ACTION ARMY COWBOY SPECIAL REVOLVER.

It’s only worth $750,000.. and to think I can make it from a $19.95 plastic Jitter-Bug camera. What a deal!

Rail Car Fan

Now I’m *definitely* going to have to dig out the pistol grip for my motorized Nikon F3. Get a long lens on that and it’s one dangerous camera. Yessir.

I think the cops might be getting a little confused. Maybe they misunderstood that some photographers have CAMERAS that look like GUNS.

http://gizmodo.com/346398/pistol-camera-makes-scorsese-de-niro-and-pesci...

Not that I’d be caught dead (ahem) shooting with that one.

“They asked why he was filming and he told them he was a documentary filmmaker.”

Actually, he didn’t mention this until long after he was overly confrontational when the officers first approached. Had he been less confrontational to begin with . . .

Jim I have to disagree with you. Exercising GOD given rights is not Confrontational its Constitutional . In fact it is every Americans duty to know and to flex his rights, IF the police do not like police work in a country that Loves liberty, they should find work in one that does not have it. WE were once a shining light on a hill. A beacon of Liberty. Every time this happens. it tarnishes the American spirit. However
If this man was a good American he would not have been driving on the suspended list. This tape could be used to justify the cops actions because in the end they Caught a criminal.

Rich,

The first words out of the guys mouth were something like “Why are you doing this in a residential area?” The tone of the question was clearly confrontational and had nothing to do with exercising the right to photography / videography in public. He continued on from there with confrontational tone and only later mentioned what he was doing.

I’m betting that if he had been less of an ass in the first 30 seconds after they officers approached, things would have turned out differently. Then again, maybe they wouldn’t have, but then the guy would have been more clearly a victim rather than an instigator.

Yes you are correct, he did exercise his first amendment right to engage the officers in a consensual conversation asking them a question. Why were they doing this in a residential neighborhood? I believe it is a very good question. Whos house were they doing it in. Was it a house repossessed by the town and owned by the town or were they trespassing on private property.
HOWEVER he did not cross the street to ask them any questions.They approached him, they initiated the consensual conversation and they received a ANSWER they did not like.they then proceeded to act under the color of law to Step on his little ant HEAD with there steal toed JACK BOOTS>
HE has a constitutional Right to OR i Should say GOD given right to ask questions of his SERVANTS. TWO ARMED MEN demanding MY papers without reasonable suspicion is very offensive to me I believe that is VERY confrontational.

Having reread My comment I have to say that your point that this guy was a ANGRY man, and your point that he could have been less of a jerk is a good one.You are correct. It does not excuse the behavior of these cops in my opinion.IF my comments seem confrontational and rude and they might be its because I am a Fat angry man with a small penis. SO I channel my anger anonymously,.IF the TONE of my response to you seemed rude I am Sorry, SOrry for the extra info that you did not need. I felt I needed to share that however.
I dont take myself to serious and you can not see the smile on my face when I type my rantings.
He should have had respect for our Republic and the People of the state of New Jersey and not have driven on the suspended list in the first place. The fact that he did so does not make his case. Your correct that he handled it like a Idiot.

Please find me a law where it states people are required to be polite, or even respectful, to the police.

People given power over other people turn into thugs.

My experience is that percentage of those normally nice cops who become thugs with power is about the same percentage as those normally nice college students in the Stanford Prison Experiment.

Excellant post, absolutely 100% spot on.

Let’s try again! EXCELLENT post!

The Golden Rule. Generally we learn it in kindergarten However we spent the money that could have been spent on early childhood education, on Prison and sniper scopes instead I do not believe the Golden Rule is a law however and I have a Right to be a DI@#.

That was awesome.
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I think the lesson to be learned here is if your going to be an ass to the police make sure your drivers license isn’t suspended.

The title of the article implies the man was arrested for videotaping when in fact the videotaping only led to the discovery of another crime. Sounds like good police work and typical journalism.

Wow….major douche bags.
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