Pixiq

they need to lynch the cop in the town square! if not, i hope they torch the place!

Looking at that clip, I was wondering why people didn’t react. There were enough people on that train to easily overpower those guards. And the other “detainees” – would I just sit there after seeing my buddy get shot like that?

But it’s the pre-9/11 effect at work. Before 9/11 people just didn’t think something like that was possible, and it took a while to figure out a reaction. By the time it got to Flight 93, people knew what to do.

Same thing here. If something like that happens again with that many people around, the guards won’t get away.

I think it was just shock. You could hear the reaction of the crowd. They expected him to get roughed up, but I don’t think they expected the cop to pull out a gun and kill him because there really wasn’t a struggle.

Not even enough to warrant the cop to use a taser gun on him.

Dale, they were not security guards in the traditional sense. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BART_Police

Wow… after that I have to completely retract my earlier comments about it being nearly impossible to mistake a Taser for a Sig — the shock on Officer Mehserle’s face speaks volumes here. It really looks like he meant to point some form of pistol-gripped weapon (taser or firearm) and wasn’t fumbling with it when it went off.

The clarity of this version cuts through much of the uncertainty — his motions were deliberate. He cleanly drew his pistol, pointed it at the suspect’s back, and pulled the trigger. Whether he expected it to be a Taser or not is immaterial in my mind from this point forward. God help that former cop because he’s going to have a tough time finding anyone else who will.

Yeah, that’s a murder. The victim was face down on the ground, and if I’m on this officer’s jury, I’ll vote to send him to the gas chamber.

Yeah, this looks to me like “fatal taser confusion”. BART is going to pay millions on this one. No idea what will happen to the cop.

First obvious point is that the cop who shot looks at his gun in shock.

Second: the shooting victim was absolutely handcuffed.

Negligent homicide. Not 1st degree murder, but still a crime.

Murder.

He did draw his weapon deliberately.

But look at his reaction when it fires. He freezes, looks up at his cop buddy, back down to the ground, back up to his cop buddy. Later, his hands at his face.

This was an unintentional weapons discharge. A crime, a mistake that ended another man’s life. But this was not deliberate murder.

This so strange. I’m not from USA, so for me these sentences are just too absurd to be true:

“Mehserle has not been arrested or arraigned for the shooting by any of the several law enforcement agencies now investigating the case.”

“Federal law enforcement were also reported to be looking into whether Mr. Grant’s civil rights were violated in his killing.”

You know, crime is scary but this is much scarier.

After reading all these posts I wasn’t sure if I was going to comment or not. Everything I feel has been said in one way or another. Until I read Cops Wife’s post. Her first sentence “I don’t think people have any right to post videos of this stuff on the internet.” made me very angry. Her attitude is absurd. Her self righteousness sickens me. “This is no one’s business except the police officers” ? Really? Enough about that stupid whore, I think what a lot of cops fail to realize is that they are not the law, they are there to uphold the law. That’s a very big difference that gets blinded by their egos. We have to overlook this flaw to some degree because it goes hand in hand with the type of people that apply for these jobs. But when someone looses their life, it can not be overlooked. I live in a city where the police shoot black men for sport. I would be very surprised if he gets convicted of any crime at all. Keep in mind that not only do the investigators have to charge him but the DA has to agree to send it to the grand jury. Then it’s up to the grand jury to indict him. Then a trial.

for the record i live in Toronto, Canada and every time i hear of a cop shooting and killing someone, and it happens more often then u think. the siu allways later says it was a clean shoot or a justifiable homicide. Funny thing is though i know the day it happens they will allways be cleared of wrong doing. Because when cops investigate cops the public loses

That was not a shooting. It was an execution.

This just doesn’t make any sense. If there had been some comment made to genuinely require the use of such force, something to make the officers believe there was a mortal danger to themselves or others, I believe there would have been more than one shot.

If there was some medium threat that warranted such force… one would think they would have shot him in the shoulder, arm, leg, etc. NOT in the BACK.

Given that it appears the cop took his time and was very purposeful and only fired a single shot to the back, I don’t see how this could have been a “good shoot” and since he resigned before IA could talk to him… definitely doesn’t bode well for him.

Watching the clip I have to stretch my imagination to determine a scenario where all of this comes together and justifies these actions.

Notice there doesn’t seem to be much surprise though by any of the other officers… did they hear/see something which warranted the action or did they just hear the officer say something to give them warning?

I’d love to see any footage from outside the train or hear the audio from the police radios.

jrfunkenstein @ 66

Two very good posts! Thanks you!
No doubt about it, the cops dragged Oscar by his cuffed arms AFTER they shot and killed him. This cop needs a long prison sentence, if he doesn’t get one it is a monumental injustice. That is an understatement!!
This action, the search and dragging of this fatally injured man, will be the last straw for these chumps in court. Those cops suck!!

Stay cool, Carlos is right. No need to kill the cops, just record their crimes!

Carlos.

Thank you.

Im from Oakland. I live in Brookyln.
I blogged about Oscar. The piece should run on Racilicious in the next few days.

This video made me cry.

It made me feel like nothing.

carlos, i know this is buried, but someone asked about this:

I lived next door to a retired sheriff. He was in his 60s, and his wife had left him cause of alcoholism. One night, when i was still in junior high, she evidently stopped by to see him at his request. He shot her with a shotgun at near point blank range.

The police surrounded his house, arrested him (naked, no less), and took him away.

The next day he was back home, and back drinking. I don’t even remember if there were a court date. He ended up dying a year or so later, but not after wrecking his car several times, etc.

Cops don’t get in trouble like the rest of us.

(ps – neighbors saw him earlier that day at the bank and he said that his wife was coming over that night for whatever reason. He knew. He also had huge security gates and doors and alarm systems, all of which she got through before he shot her in the vestibule. at the very least it was manslaughter… at the worst it was 1st degree murder.)

After reading some of these response I can only you some of you kneejerkers never end up on a jury.

To me this is clearly murder!!!!

Had this been a minority individual shooting someone he would have already been beaten by the police and through in jail, whether it was accidental or not!!!!

As far as a taser goes; the police get repeated hours of training with guns and tasers so that they know the difference between both and when to use them and not!!!!

The gun is worn on the right side of your holster and your taser is worn on your left side of your holster unless you shoot with your left hand then its vice-versa, no mistake here!

Cops are trained not to mistake the gun or the taser…

This was no accident. If the officer never meant to fire his gun then he should have never pull out his gun!!!

This officer had no right to shoot Grant in the back accidentally or other wise!!!

In this country you are guarantied a trail, presumed innocent, before you are found guilty or innocent.

Even if this shooting of Grant was an accident why hasn’t this officer been arrested?
Even if this shooting was an accident why hasn’t this officer been detailed?

This is not an accident this is murder in the 1st degree. This officer took someone’s life with out cause or due process!!!

I feel like Psynaut does; I am beyond words because of the, “police brutality and abuse of power under the Bush administration makes another part of me want to see him and all like him lynched.” Accident or no accident.

Just tired of police abuse and misconduct under the color of authority…

In England the cops are the same, trigger happy. Thank God they are not all armed or there will be a lot more people shot when they could be restrained using a taser.

They are also above the law and are never prosecuted or lose their jobs. In fact they don’t lose their jobs at all now if they have a criminal record.

Don’t it make you feel safe walking the streets!

Based on the the way the cop who made the shot grabbed his head afterward, I’d guess the story about him confusing his handgun for his taser was correct and that it was involuntary manslaughter.

This was an execution, no two ways about it.

That said, do not make the mistake of blaming this on the Bush Administration. This type of stuff has been going on for a lot longer than Bush has been in office. We just have better means to catch the stuff on tape and prove the cops are full of crap now.

im not a US citizen and therfore not familiar with local police-procedures after a person shooting another person. im not a judge or lawyer either, so i dont want to specutlate about whether it was murder or manslaughter or whatever and how it has to be “punished”. nor about “glocks” or “sig sauers” or their safetys and similarities to taserguns . not even about if it had been by purpous or an enormously stupid moron dumb failure.

WHAT RIDDLES ME IS:

how can someone (whoever) possibly shoot a human-beeing in broad view of the public and not bee detained or held for questioning until the whole case is at court and he is eather found guilty or not?

9 days done and the first person to ask about what happened (= the shooter) has´nt even been interviewed by any law enforcing official…

i do understand that people are rightfully angry… and the “more stupid ones” among them are going violent and calling for vengeance and chaos and blood (ending up in more innocent persons getting harmed or hurt)… on the other hand: historically this seems to be the only way to put enough preassure on the “established club of powerful institutions/individuals” to force them out their tracks… i dont know… this world somehow just sucks

please excuse my bad English/spelling

Dale, I agree with you can never surely say what you will do when you find yourself in situations like this. I want to live in a world where those cops would have been over-powered and torn apart by the onlookers immediately.

After reading the comments of Cops Wife and Barbara (on another post thread) I am now convinced that there is one person worse that a crooked cop.

A crooked cop’s wife.

Shit, I’m more afaid of cops than drug dealers and gangs! One day these assholes might pull me over for a tag light and just shoot the fck out of me because he’s having a bad day, and the sad thing is he might get away with it. all he has to say is “The subject was reaching for what looked like a gun”. He will go under investigation and all these fck’d up judges and his pussy cop buddies will make the shooting look justified. Its not just fck’d up cops, its the whole fck’n system! so FCK THE LAW! by the way I dont belive this one will get away with this stunt he pulled, there are way too many witnesses.

John,

And the amazing part is that they appear to be two different people from two completely different locations.

Stay strong brotha…

Even the worst comments on this site about Oscar Grant’s murder, are like a Sunday School lesson compared to some of the other blogs. Whites, especially trailer trash, still “salty” with rage about Obama’s win (the nerve of that uppity n***er!) have been having a field day with their “he deserved it” and “good riddance” comments. A generation ago such cowardly racists hid behind sheets, now thanks to modern technology they are able to hide behind computer keys.
In the 70′s the phrase “The whole world is watching” demonstrated the power of visuals vs. cover-ups…and now today no one can deny what the countless number of cell phone videos have shown…a young man, with his hands raised in the universal sign of surrender was executed, face down, by somenone who was sworn to serve and protect.
Several bloggers have commented that black-on-black crime is worse than police killings because it is more rampant. Any one on this site that is interested in really understanding black-on-black crime needs to read “Soul on Ice” by Eldridge Cleaver and “Makes Me Wanna Holler” by Nathan McCall. Cleaver, in “justifying” why he raped so many black girls states that he did so because he knew there would be no punishment, no outcry, because black girls were not valued. He said he thought about “crossing over”, that is raping white girls, but he knew that he would then have to suffer consequences. Similarly, McCall, in describing his own rage, frustration , and despair growing up as a black male, states that homicide by a black male against another black male is really suicide. He explains that since a black male (especially one living in poverty with no education or perceved positive options) hates himself so much after being reminded daily that he is “worthless, he does not value the life of someone who looks like him…and he knows there will be no consequences if he kills that black male, a mirror of himself. My parents grew up in the segregated South, and told us constantly about the unwritten code that blacks and whites well understood—”kill a black, it ain’t a crime; kill a white, and you gon’ do time…or git your neck stretched.” Each time a cop (black or white) kills or brutalizes a young man of color, it further devalues their lives…and continues the cycle of black on black crime. After all, they must be worthless right(?) if cops can kill a man the night before his wedding—Sean Bell—a man reaching for his wallet—Amadou Dialo—and now Oscar Grant,—and there are NO CONSEQUENCES for these crimes. No wonder little black children kept picking white dolls over black dolls as “the prettiest and the smartest” in Dr. Clark’s experiments in the 1950s and later in the 1980′s…Black life is not valued in this country, and other parts of the world (who imitate AmeriKKKan values). Until it is, if ever, there will be more murders by police AND black-on-black crime.

I don’t know where the story of the officer confusing to use a taser instead of a gun came from. Has anyone even consider these questions or know the answers.

Was the officer who shot Grant allowed to even carry a taser gun?

Was the office who shot Grant on that video even carrying a taser gun?

Aren’t taser guns usually a BRIGHT YELLOW or ORANGE COLOR? ( The Subway was well lit.)

Don’t you need to turn on a taser gun? (Don’t you think the officer would have thought, hey maybe this is a real gun with bullets because it doesn’t have a switch to turn on so let me put it back in my holster and grab the taser gun instead.)

Don’t guns have a safety mechanism where you have to adjust it in order for the gun to fire? (You would have thought this would have been a hugh RED FLAG in knowing this is not a taser gun)

I think those are the real answers we need that will draw us to a conclusion of this case that we are all looking for.

The officer is without a doubt guilty of some sort of crime whether it be murder, manslaughter or any other crime requiring a sentence for time in prison.

On a financial note, if I was the attorney representing the Family, I would have filed a $100,000,000 lawsuit against the defendants in this case including the officer that shot Grant.

Grant you will be resurrected…

It isn’t news that a majority of police officers shouldn’t be able to carry a weapon. damn shame. I hope these crooked cops get what’s coming to them.

“This was an unintentional weapons discharge. A crime, a mistake that ended another man’s life. But this was not deliberate murder.”

NO

You pull your gun; aim at a person who is face down, handcuffed; pull the trigger (it’s not as easy as on toy guns you know).

There can not be any talk of anything unintentional.

if you look at 1:48 of the video, another “cop” walks by with a taser drawn….it’s bright yellow!!!! The killer held his weapon with 2 hands in front of him for 2 – 3 seconds before firing….. no way in hell you could mistake it for anything else… this goon was in thug mode and acted out his power trip fantasy to the unfortunate conclusion we see here…. another 17 year old kid killed with a taser yesterday…. old ladies tased…. I’m afraid the most feared enemy is now the police….

X

This guys web site keeps smamming me with e-mail even after unsubscribing…CARLOS THIS SUCKS…FIX IT!

My website?

Jocelyn,

I live in Miami where black men kill each other on an almost regular basis. It is not just African-Americans, but it is also Haitian-Americans.

It’s get to the point where every time you read a headline of someone getting killed, you automatically assume it’s in the black neighborhoods.

I am Colombian-American, a native of Miami, and I have spent a lot of time in Miami’s black neighborhoods. I have many friends there. I’ve taken many photos there. I am not afraid to walk through those neighborhoods with my cameras.

The people I know, the people I’ve met in those neighborhoods, the people who have invited me in their house are no different than the Latin people I grew up with.

But there is a difference. They are killing each other. Not necessarily the people I know, but the people in their neighborhoods.

And where does it stop?

I’m glad you found my site not as racist as the other sites. I allow discussion, but when it gets to a certain intolerable point, I have deleted comments and banned people.

But it really hasn’t happened that often.

Here is something I wrote a few months ago about my experience in one of Miami’s black neighborhoods.

http://www.magiccitymania.com/2008/05/07/liberty-city-lesson/

after the shooting police took as many cameras vidio phones as the could . the news showed a officer with 4 paper bags full of them as evidince .bart police say there where no vidios of the incident recorded the next day, if the bart train doors hadent closed and those few vidios gotten away from the bart police they would have covered up the whole story

A “tazer” in Illinois even without the battery attached can be charged just like a firearm so… That would indicate it is a deadly weapon right? Why was a tazer needed? Are these other officers complicite?

If you view it with an open mind you will see this:

First guy getting cuffed for some reason. Man who ends up getting shot keeps trying to get onto his feet and the cop makes him sit back down.

Shot man ends up getting cuffed for some reason and appears to be struggling with the cops.

The cop stands up and draws down on him, pauses, and the other officer starts to move up and away from the cuffed man.

Officers normally call out that they are going to use the taser to warn other officers to get back. This may explain the pause and why the other officer gets off the guy just before the shot.

The officer is in full view of about 100 people who are witnesses and video taping him. The shot man is cuffed. Why a cop would decide to “execute” or “murder” a cuffed man with so many witnesses is beyond my comprehension.

There was another officer there that had a yellow taser so I know they had them available.

Immediately after the shooting the cop looked stunned and confused. It appears that he did not understand what just happened.

Many departments require cops to carry the taser on their week side because the taser is identical in size and use as a firearm.

This is not the first time an officer used his sidearm when he thought it was a taser.

So it looks to me that the cop wanted to stop the guy from fighting them off with his legs and he decided to deploy the taser. Whether it was right or wrong to use.

He points what he thinks was his taser, calls out he is going to use it, and fires one time.

Manslaughter or murder? I think not.

all you fucking idiots out there. a gun is heavy. a taser is not. and a gun isn’t yellow. and he held it infront of himself before firing.

fuck the pigs!
fight the police!

Yet another reason that Cops shouldn’t have TASERS. They use them too often and in unwarranted circumstances. And then you get things like this!

Sick, just Sick. What has this country become?

“Wow… after that I have to completely retract my earlier comments about it being nearly impossible to mistake a Taser for a Sig — the shock on Officer Mehserle’s face speaks volumes here. It really looks like he meant to point some form of pistol-gripped weapon (taser or firearm) and wasn’t fumbling with it when it went off.”

ok, i’ve read all the comments here, and i feel i should probably make comment on what was said to clarify. she was a little upset after reading some of the police bashing that goes on in here. yes, it is your business. no, I don’t mind being taped while I am doing my duty. it makes it much more difficult to concentrate on my job and protect myself and the public from *gasp* criminals.. how am i supposed to know whether the person i’m dealing with is gonna kill me? what is my so called ‘whore’ of a wife going to do now to feed my children? for every supposed excessive force video, there is a dash cam video or some other type of surveillance video showing a police officer being executed by the very people he is trying to protect.

no, we don’t know what happened that day unless we were in person watching it. the video is very poor quality and for all we know he may or may not have been searched. i’m not saying that the officer was in the right. obviously he felt necessary that he should resign. much better than trying to cover the entire thing up imho. so before you call every cop you see crooked, or that we are just a large GANG (i really liked that one), take a second look and realize that we don’t all have a superiority complex, and we just want to keep our superiors happy and go home at the end of the shift.

oh, and for those of you that are going to try and bash me because you don’t believe any of my comments are true, or that i’m just another gang member, think what you want. i hear much worse in person and ANGRY TYPING AND ALL CAPS DONT SCARE ME. i don’t troll around forums looking to feel better about myself. good evening gentlemen..

how bout this…lets go old testament…
does the cop have a child?

Cop Wife’s Husband,

As the guy who runs this site, I want to thank you for your comments.

I am curious, however, about an officer’s Use of Force Doctrine.

Isn’t there a series of steps an officer must go through before he pulls out his gun and shoots?

Where would the use of a Taser gun fall within those steps?

Some people have mentioned that Oscar Grant may have been resisting but you probably deal with more resistance on a daily basis than what was seen in that video.

The Truth,

If the scenario played out as you said, how can it not be manslaughter?

It’s not murder if there is no intent to kill or if there is no malice aforethought or willful disregard for life. If the officer in question really did intend to draw his taser and not his service piece, then it can’t be murder.

But it then follows that the fact that he intended to use a taser on someone already restrained means that his action grew out of a criminal disregard for the civil rights and the health and safety of the victim (who at that time could be considered in custody) which makes this a case of involuntary manslaughter (sometimes called criminally negligent homicide) for which he can and should be tried.

Cop’s wife’s husband.
I whole-heartily disagreed with your wife’s comments and, because of the anonymity of the web, used unnecessarily insulting language to express my disagreement. My apologies to you and your wife.
Can anyone please explain to me why there hasn’t been any updates in the investigation or even an official explanation offered? In my town, the use of deadly force got so bad that we swore in a public review board that get answers almost immediately. My father was a police officer for many years and I remember several stories of multiple officers having to get someone under control. Many officers getting bloody noses in the process. No one ever got shot or killed. I would think it would be difficult NOT to struggle when getting pushed to the ground with an officer sitting on your neck. Surely standard procedure would require more of a struggle than this to use a tazer or especially deadly force. Have the investigators set a date for a press conference or anything like that?

Speaker to Wolves:

Actually, you’re not quite right. Malice aforethought would be necessary to prove Murder 1. Clearly, a willful disregard for life CAN be proved in this instance. The use of a firearm in this case is in and of itself enough to prove intent to kill.

NO ONE is going to buy the, “I thought I had my taser in my hand, but it turned out to be my service revolver” excuse. It’s insulting to anyone and everyone’s intelligence.

Murder 2 is a more likely scenario for Mehserle, although he MIGHT be able to plea to Manslaughter – and, again, he’s not going to get away with INVOLUNTARY Manslaughter.

There are now 3 separate investigations into what happened, with the Attorney General (Jerry Brown) appointing a prosecutor to oversee the 3 investigations. Jerry Brown has said he doesn’t understand the delay in the process of the investigations and that he will launch his own investigation if things get stalled.

This isn’t Rodney King on tape. This is Oscar Grant being SHOT IN THE BACK DEAD by a cop who snapped. If you look at the video, Mehserle doesn’t look at the gun (as in, “Gee, that ain’t my taser…”), he looks at the ground, then looks around and his body language says, “OMG! What the fuck did I just do?”

Good luck with trying to convince a jury that Mehserle is NOT guilty of AT LEAST Murder 2. Mehserle’s best bet is to confess and try to plea to Manslaughter.