Pixiq

These people had to be harmed by the police. It was for their own good.

Cowardly pigs belong in a slaughterhouse.
ClintJCL recently posted..JOURNAL: MEDICAL: Cut my hand the worst I ever have with scissors in my life

For once, modern texting abbreviations sum it up:

OMG! WTF!

Whoever was involved with this should be criminally prosecuted,imprisoned, and prevented from ever working in a position where they have physical authority over another human being ever again.

You guys are scum, the lowest form of cowards ever, using our taxpayer money meant to serve and protect the public to assault the elderly instead.

You will lose your lawsuit, and the other 7 John Doe names must be released o the public.
ClintJCL recently posted..JOURNAL: MEDICAL: Cut my hand the worst I ever have with scissors in my life

We are now living in the world that once only existed in the imagination of science fiction writers. God help us all.

This story so breaches the absolutely ridiculous that I’m hesitant to have an opinion. Surely more details must suggest something other than the, thus far, plain facts.

On the other hand, the story does picture what, albeit reluctantly, I have begun to expect….

This has nothing to do with photography you douchebag!

And where are all the cop ass-sniffers now?

I wanna hear how these ten (FUCKING TEN!) assholes are the exceptions to the rule.

I don’t know about you all, but I sure feel safer.

You cop-hating hippies are always quick to take the side of 86 year-old bedridden women.

Haven’t any of you ever read Little Red Riding Hood? The brave policemen of El Reno, OK had no way of knowing if she was really an 86 year-old woman until they tased and handcuffed her. Until they had the situation under control, they had every reason to believe that she might have been the Big, Bad Wolf.

The guy getting jumped by those old people was taken by surprise and almost taken down. I think Jack Lalanne might have created an underground army of old people poised to take control. Don’t under estimate the strength of an 86 year old woman on oxygen and half dead. That’s when they have you. POUNCING right as you least expect it.

So you no longer think they should only be used when lethal force is justified?

Johnny Law:

You are seriously deluded on something.
Consider the Supreme Court ruling in John Bad Elk v. The United States (177 U.S. 529):

The High Court pointed out, Bad Elk was not obliged to submit to an unlawful arrest, and he “had the right to use such force as was absolutely necessary to resist an attempted illegal arrest….” Furthermore, ruled the Court, “the law looks with very different eyes upon the transaction when the officer had the right to make the arrest from what it does if the officer had no such right. What might be murder in the first case might be nothing more than manslaughter in the other, or the facts might show that no offense had been committed.”

So, Johnny Law, it is not necessarily a crime to resist an unlawful arrest, even if that resistance takes the form of violence against the police.

PS: I am not currently licensed to practice law in the United States of America.

I found an article where an officer died after being hit by a taser during training, though it appears it wasn’t the actual shock that killed him. He died from an infection where the probe entered, and gave 3rd degree burns, to his arm.
Taser, Int’l. vehemently denied claims that the infection was caused by taser probe burning his flesh. Two other officers were severely injured, one with spinal fractures related to the shock. Both sued taser.

http://www.lasvegassun.com/news/2008/nov/23/cops-raise-taser-safety-claims/

I also found this while I was searching.

http://jonathanturley.org/2010/01/14/taser-tots-kankakee-police-officer-...

It isn’t about a taser death, though it just goes to show the reckless abandon that some officers have with the use of their tasers.

No, I mean only when the need out weighs the possibly of death.

Are you fucking retarded?

@Johnny Law

No idiot, but the woman didn’t pull the knife out until the COPS entered her home, which she obviously was opposed to. The cops escalated the situation merely by being there. There are better ways to deal with dellusional elderly people than by bringing untrained, trigger happy cops into the mix to aggravate them.

Amnesty International is completely biased. They normally twist every incident to make the taser look at fault. Show me documentation from an independent investigation. There hasn’t been any that show the taser to be the great killer it’s made out to be by Amnesty.

Those examples have nothing to do with the voltage delivered by the taser. Of course falls and puncture wounds can cause injury. You can get that from simply wrestling with the police. The link about the kids shows the officer used bad judgement but it also has nothing to do with the risks of the taser.

Not sure what your point is about the guy getting shot out of the tree or the BART incident. Both were due to a mistake made by the officers. That is why most departments make you carry the taser on the off side so you don’t get it confused with your actual gun. It doesn’t address the appropriateness of using a taser to subdue a subject.

@Henry Lawless

You are quoting a court case from the year 1900. There are about a dozen states that allow the right to resist an unlawful arrest. However most states do not allow this. The thing is, even in the few states where you can resist an unlawful arrest, this means an ACTUAL unlawful arrest. It doesn’t mean an arrest you disagree with. I think this important distinction would get most of the folks on this board in trouble.

You think weed should be legal and you want to resist an arrest for possession? Too bad. You think jaywalking is a chickenshit charge and you don’t want to go to jail for it? Tough shit. If someone is threatening to kill themselves, has a knife, and is refusing to comply with demands of the police, there is nothing unlawful about using a taser on that person.

Just because a person gets found not guilty in court or charges get dropped doesn’t mean that the officer didn’t have probable cause to make the original arrest. Be careful before you start to fight off that speeding ticket. I don’t think you will like the results.

Wait… the grandson didn’t call for police, he called for an EMT. Why were the police even there?

This would make me less likely to call 911 for medical help.
Calladus recently posted..Won in the Emergency Room

“but it also has nothing to do with the risks of the taser.”

I never said it did. Read it again.

“It isn’t about a taser death, though it just goes to show the reckless abandon that some officers have with the use of their tasers.“

The taser was originally sold to the public as an alternative to using a gun, where a gun was too much force but other weapons were too little. It is now a compliance tool, or an “officer safety” tool which translates to “I don’t want a bruise or a scratch” but I’m “the bravest of the brave and paid to put my life on the line”.

Really, an 82 year-old bedridden women scares you? Like a 12 lb Daschund or a Lab running away from you? (Dogs that were shot because of Officer fear for safety, shudder….) Really, the Sheeple are braver.

About the only time I’ve agreed with the UN: the taser is a tool to torture for compliance.

I think the taser was misunderstood by some members of the public who are a bit naive. It certainly is an officer safety tool. You seem very eager for the police to attempt to disarm an armed subject with just their bare hands. I seriously doubt you would have charged in and tried to pry the knife out of that old lady’s hands. Of course that doesn’t stop you from implying that the police should have done just that.

But that’s not what happened. The cops could have just left. A bedridden person is not a threat because they can’t actually physically get to you unless you deliberately place yourself in their reach.
ClintJCL recently posted..links for 2010-06-26

First off, being high on drugs is not a capital crime punishable by summary execution without a trial.

Second off, your fatality rate was based off of numbers you completely made up.

Mental masturbation: Not the best way to get an accurate picture of reality.
ClintJCL recently posted..links for 2010-06-26

Actually, Johnny Law, it is Taser International who has gone out of the way to INVOKE LAWSUITS AGAINST CORONERS to force them to change the cause of death from ‘taser’ to ‘excited delirium’, a condition the AMA did not even recognize at the time of suit.

I will happily provide the link proving this. Now do you have a link for Amnesty International twisting things? Nope? Didn’t think so.

coughdouchecough
ClintJCL recently posted..links for 2010-06-26

Imagine that Carlos didn’t report the whole story.

ASSHOLE!!!!

@MisterDNA,you need to seek some serious mental help.And stop trying to be a comedian,because you ain’t got it!!!

Clearly nobody understood your blatant sarcasm.

El Reno Police Department

City of El Reno
116 N Evans Ave
El Reno, OK 73036-0700
Phone – Non-emergency-(405) 262-6941, or 262-2121
Fax (405) 262-2128

I just called and left a message for the Chief of police. I left my name and number and asked him to call me back. He probably wont considering the message I left.
Totally outrageous. There is absolutely no justification for this.
The BUCK stops right with the police chief, if these allegations are true. HE should be fired if these allegations are true. The men who did it need to be behind bars.

Clearly nobody understood your blatant sarcasm Bill.

The reason the cops tased her was not because they were afraid. If that were really true, then those cops are absolute cowards. Besides, they could have easily backed away if they were really afraid. If she whipped out a weapon that had range, then they would’ve stepped back

The real reason they attacked her was because she wasn’t complying with their orders to calm down. They didn’t care if she was old, confused, sick, or needed medication to calm her. They only wanted to enforce their will on her. That’s why they tased her.

Cops are consistently authoritarian and don’t give a crap about circumstances or the context. They will shoot you with a taser if you’re having a seizure, if you’re in desperate need of medical help, etc. There are plenty of news stories like this if one wants to google them. Hell, I’m awaiting the case where they tase a pregnant woman giving birth because she’s not complying with their orders to keep silent.

The answer here is to destroy the pathetic sense of authority that these cops have. Lawsuits aren’t enough. You need to personally disrespect them in every circumstance you interact with them, because once police see that they are merely thug revenue collectors instead of being the protectors of society they’re supposed to be, maybe they’ll achieve a little well needed humility.

First off I didn’t say it was a capital crime to be high on drugs. I was just pointing out that maybe the drugs killed some if those people not the taser.

To say they were executed you would have to prove inbtent to kill by the police. Now I don’t think you can say they have any intent to kill when they taser somebody since they get tasered themselves. Anybody who voluntarily gets tasered can’t believe it will resultin death.

As far as my numbers are concerned I made them up based on your peoples opinions that cops taser everybody for anything. If you don’t agree with my numbers then maybe they aren’t as taser happy as you think. Also I didn’t include Canada even though I believe they are figured in the 351 deaths.

She was threatening to kill herself and had the means to do it. If they walked away and she killed herself would you be crying that the police didn’t do their job and the family should sue?

Hey syd way to just ignore the fact that she had a knife and was suicidle.

That’s like calling a man a pediphile for touching a little boy and ignoring the fact that he is a doctor performing a physical.

What a pathetic group of cry babies, unbelievable….

I live in an unincorporated area near a large city. Our county fire and rescue will normally answer calls for service without any law enforcement (sheriff) assistance. If we specifically ask for a deputy they will send one but otherwise not. In 11 years here we have had the sheriff out to the house one time. I’ve called 911 twice, once for the neighbor’s shed being totally engulfed in flames. I rarely see law enforcement out here. We have little crime, most people have big dogs and guns so they stay out of here. Neighbors watch out for one another and take care of themselves. Go a few miles down the road into the city and things are quite different. People there expect the city to take care of them from cradle to grave. There is a culture of expecting the city to solve all their problems and they call 911 if their trash collection is late. There have been eight people shot to death by the city cops since January. There are swat scenes daily, schools locked down daily, and major streets closed by machine gun toting swat goons. What I can’t figure out is why people give up their freedoms to a municipal corporation and end up not being safer but more victimized.

The LMHP makes an independent assessment because they are liable for sanctions by their professional association for “failure to advocate for the patient.” In addition to the first exam, two additional exams are conducted by two different LMHP — one of whom must be an MD.

Let me ask you — if you were a LMHP would you bow to the pressure of the police in your assessment? That seems to be the issue here. Everyone here assumes that evil people are just out to get you. But most of the people involved in this story are just like you. They go to work, do their job honestly.

So Amnesty International puts pressure on medical examiners to change their findings so that it fits their (Amnesty’s) agenda? And you don’t consider this trying to twist facts? I wonder what world you live in.

Facts don’t seem to get in the way on this site. It’s all about twisting something to fit their anti-cop agenda.

I read this and just feel sad all over. I spent a good deal of my life as a paramedic. This women could have been very easy to handle. Police and ems never take time to talk to people anymore. Situations like this become a pissing match, or the emergency personnel don’t use their brains.

This lady was bed ridden, and was only a danger to herself if you kept at a distance. Just use a little compassion, and take some time to talk to the patient. I’ve seen so many fellow emt’s and medics quick to call in police or wrestle patients down. Let’s not even get into how most suicidal patients are mistreated by fire, police, and hospital personnel.
Most suicidal people we get ems calls on just want someone to talk to, and someone to listen. The truly serious ones are usually dead long before we reach them.

for gods sake, take some time and talk to the women. Yes, you can have the taser ready in case she looks like she is going to use it on herself, but there was no reason to use it yet.

It seems like so many cops are just looking for a chance to use a taser,. It’s like a toy they are just dying to play with.

Again, it’s not just cops at fault here…it seems many of the young fire and ems can’t take the time and interact with their patients.

I’m so glad I retired.

renegademag;
We are coming for you! You have reveled the secret plan and now must be eliminated. Look out we have torches, pitchforks and 100 proof Geritol.

Anti cop? What ever gave you that idea? I was one for 12 years, I am not anti cop, I am anti stupid. My problem is with many of the ones coming on now who are arrogant, over bearing and have no common sense. I see it all the time and so do you, unless you are one of them and I doubt that. Do not give an automatic reaction, you seem too intelligent for that. Good police work is a calling and deserves far more than many are giving it, we need to weed the bad ones out.

Sci-fi author Isaac Asimov predicted the Taser, sort of; he called it the Neuronic Whip.

Why only 12 years Roger. I thought cops had to work. 20-25 years before they could retire.

Just like a baton, which is supposed to be less-than-lethal, its improper use can easily inflict trauma or become lethal. Reckless abandonment is correct. The use of a taser is a form of hitting the “easy” button. It keeps the officer(s) from touching the subject until submission takes place and it is not as messy. Collateral exposure to chemical agents is avoided as well. Sure, the major concept behind its use is for officer safety. WTF? They are paid to manage “difficult” people. If an officer resorts to the use of a taser at the drop of a hat, I feel that he should find another line of work, as he is a pussy. I just don’t like them for the reason that the nervous system operates on electrical impulses. Bombarding it with a crazy amount of disruptive voltage is more than invasive, it has the potential of making things unnecessarily ugly and permanent.

Dave were you there? How do you know the police didn’t try to talk her down? You are making an awful lot of assumptions.

The report and articles make it clear that she didn’t want to listen to anything the police were saying. Sooner or later you have to take some action.

@ Roger

You ask what gave the idea this site was anti-cop? Are you joking with me?

“Cowardly pigs belong in a slaughterhouse.”
“You guys are scum, the lowest form of cowards ever…”
“Tasers need to be taken away from cops. Cops think they are gods. I’ve got news for you, you aren’t.”
“If the cops aren’t arrested for assault and battery, attempted murder, false imprisonment, and perjury, then I may need to rethink my opinions on vigilante justice.”
“If I ruled the world, cops who abuse their power severely like this would get the death penalty…….and thier execution will be broadcasted for all to see, including in front of the families of those cops, who will see thier loved ones hung or beaten. ”
“We need to start limiting police actions against citizens and make punishment more severe for these government goons.”
“Fucking filth, they should all be tied up, tased and left out in the desert to die, assholes.”
“Take away all of their tasers, guns and billy clubs. Start training these pigs to diffuse a situation with their words, like the rest of us had to learn in kindergarten.”

Yeah no idea where that came from.