Pixiq

I know the supreme court has probably decided otherwise, but how is handcuffing someone, rifling through their personal things, and keeping them from leaving NOT an arrest?

Only in some ridiculous “legal technicality” sense, I’m sure. “Detained” but handcuffed? That’s always bothered me.

I wan’t to see pictures of the idiots who told him he can’t take photos. Also one of the cop would be nice.

Called OSU. A Captain by the name of Whiteside is handling complaints according to a receptionist that took my call.

Whiteside.6@osu.edu is the contact email. I’ve sent in my two cents.
Jeremy Jojola´s last blog ..Organ Harvester’s Flimsy Background

I like how the comments on The Lantern site are lining up pretty squarely against the cops, as they should be.
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Arrest is a formal legal process with very specific rules for when it can be inflicted (probably cause that the suspect has committed a crime). Detention can be inflicted on mere reasonable suspicion of a crime, and if memory serves, can also be used on witnesses if they would reasonably have information useful to an investigation (don’t quote me on that part).

Duration is another difference. A defendant under arrest will be processed at the police station and probably make a court appearance, and this is even before a final decision to charge has been made.

In contrast, the reasonable time for detention pursuant to an investigation has been limited to something like 20 minutes, unless probable cause can be found to make an arrest (as I recall, the SCOTUS didn’t specifically say 20 minutes, they were vague on the exact time and 20 minutes is what’s been adopted as reasonable in most jurisdictions).

I am not a lawyer and this post does not constitute legal advice.
akagoldfish´s last blog ..(Untitled)

Any OSU alums reading this? Particularly alums who have made generous contributions? A call to the university president right about now might be a good idea.
akagoldfish´s last blog ..(Untitled)

All I can say is
What the fuck!?

Thanks for the response…I’m vaguely familiar with these legal definitions and precedents. I guess I’m just looking at it from a layman’s point of view, and I find it ridiculous that a cop can cuff me, but that’s not an arrest. Syntax, legalese, mincing words, I’m not sure what you call it, but I think detention IS arrest, just at a different level (and thus, used to make it sound less dramatic, i.e., you’re not under arrest, just detained. So smile.)

Cops Have Beef With Bovine Photog

Keystone Kops Chase Kows, Kase Photog For Not Kowtowing

Couldn’t help meself.

Carlos, cases like these … makes me wonder if there’s an opportunity for getting students involved with PINAC, somehow. They’re the next generation of photojournalists and writers … this site is all about enlightening journalists (and everybody else) on photographer’s rights. Seems like there’s potential for some type of collaboration.

Just knowing that there’s a supportive site for documenting their brushes with the law, for one, but maybe the occasional guest blogger or something, dunno.

Makes me wonder what your .edu metrics are like.

The Lantern article says “He was detained, handcuffed and is facing a misdemeanor charge of criminal trespass.”

So, if he was on the athletic field with no cows around, would he have been liable for criminal trespass charges??

Or is this just another variation on disorderly conduct – keep photographers the fuck away from our public servants working in public, by charging them with whatever seems likely.

My money’s on the charges being dropped. I hope this young dude summons the cojones to challenge the detention.

Am I the only person that knows the difference between a cow and a bull?

A cow will rarely if ever charge, and has udders; however a bull has the balls to charge often.

I’m a city slicker but I was thinking just that. I’ve seen cows in Colombia at my family’s ranches and they hardly move.

However, I’m just going with what the article said.
Carlos Miller´s last blog ..iPhone raid once again shows a judge leaning against Fourth Amendment

“while there may have been a detention, no arrest was made, so use of the term to describe police and public safety intervention is not correct”

Interesting that he conveniently left the part about violating the photographer’s 4th amendment rights by shuffling through his wallet without probable cause or permission. Cops sure do have a hard time remembering all those pesky amendments and rights don’t they?

Hey, c’mon you bozos!! Didn’t you hear that all them there 9/11 Al Kayduhs wuz known to prong holsteins? They shudda put that studunt photogographer in a airplian and flewd it into a bilding. That’s show the little pinko fella traveller!!

Rusty Carr:

Is that some kind of joke?

Gilbert Pocket Size Law Dictionary defines arrest as: “The taking of a person into custody for the purpose of bringing him before a court. The arresting person must have legal authority, must adequately communicate his intent to arrest, and must actually restrain the arrested person for the act to be called an arrest. He must have probable cause to seize and detain; i.e., suspicion is not enough.”

Except for the probable cause, it looks like the case meets the definition of arrest. On the other hand, it meets all the criteria for false arrest.

“you’re not a real photojournalist until you get handcuffed. welcome to journalism.

you just popped your cherry.

someone give this kid an internship.”

Favorite comment from the Lantern article.

YES!

OK Tom, you caught me in the act!

That’s unreal… I was a student journalist for several years in undergrad and had opportunities to cover some minor protests and once even a campus fire. Did get confronted by officious people a couple times but as soon as I made it clear that I worked for the student paper I was permitted to keep shooting on all but one occasion. Certainly the police were never called (in fact most of them knew me by sight and would have allowed me to work). This was only ten or twelve years ago…

Do cops have some sort of inferiority complex which makes them uppity whenever a camera comes around? I would think, were they decent cops doing their job, they would want to be recognized as professionals acting professionally.

Erm, I think I just answered my own question….

Ok hate to burst your bubble, but cows will charge. Though they seem lethargic, if they get spooked or cornered they will charge toward an exit. However, the cops were totally in the wrong here.
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The cows must have felt right at home with all the pigs out there.
Rance´s last blog ..BinaryGravy: @CarlosMiller I’m so sick of this Gestapo crap in Arizona! Just one more reason why I will never move there.

Cows and cops.
I sometimes wonder which is more bovine.

Email to university: Strongly support the handcuffing of student attempting to embarrass Univ with pictures of cows.

Hello,

I read an article about your staff handcuffing a student for taking photos of cows. I fully empathize, the embarrassment suffered at the idea of having photos of cows loose must have been excruciatingly painful for you. I don’t think you went far enough! I suggest the student caught photographing bovines at the general ridicule of your university be sent a strong message. He should be tied to the field from which his illegal photographs were made and forced to wear a cow’s costume. Otherwise everyone will be laughing at your police for not doing enough. Everyone knows that there is currently taking place and arms race to see who can squash unruly public behavior the harshest. I am fully satisfied that you searched the student without probable cause and without him breaking a specific law. Which just shows more laws have to be made. BUT, you will appear weak if you don’t punish this student harshly enough. I suggest you immediately get him back into your custody and form a commission to formulate appropriate tortures.

Sincerely,
Nicholas

Good call Nicholas.

On top of that you can’t over estimate the importance of keeping cow pictures out of the hands of Islmic jihadist terrorists.

If I am in my house taking pictures of myself will I be arrested? I think so. Jesus Motherfucking Christ, people and this no picture taking bullshit is really gettin’ on my tits. I am going out to have a camera surgically implanted on my forehead, fuck em. Anyone know a good plastic surgeon?
Jody´s last blog ..San Fran Supervisor – Don’t tell a lie or you could go to jail!

I’m an OSU Alumnus, and this is outrageous.

IANAL, but OSU cops are NOT police. They are university security. So, correct me if I’m wrong, but doesn’t that make them even less authoritative in this situation?

Depends on how much hormone gets pumped into them and if they’re with their calf or not. I’ve seen a cow charge before. I’ve also seen a cow mount another cow. Funniest thing I’ve ever seen!
Guy Freeman´s last blog ..Unmarked cruisers at Elizabeth Scheibel’s Office

Sort of reminds me of Western PA cops–where just driving around at 2am is considered probable cause.

But let’s not forget, these are the same insecure assholes that were probably bar bouncers a year earlier. Now there cops. Sad really.

I think that cop has some explaining to do.

As an area cop, not OSU, I can tell you a bit about ‘arrest’ vs. ‘detaining’. We can arrest people WITH PROBABLE CAUSE (that a crime is occurring) and then “unarrest” them if we wish (typically then summoned). We can also detain (absolutely NOT arrest) when we have LESS THAN probable cause but have at least REASONABLE SUSPICION (that a crime is occurring) . With just ‘reasonable suspicion’, we can “frisk” the OUTSIDE of someones clothing for weapons. etc(Terry vs. Ohio, landmark case). but SHALL NOT go INTO pockets without probable cause (unless while frisking, we feel what appears to be a weapon or contraband).

So, OSU will have to scramble to come up with a crime that the officer supposedly had at least “probable cause” to arrest him on, because otherwise he just violated the photographers 4th amendment protection against searches without probable cause when he went into his pocket to get his wallet. Plainly put, he’s NOT allowed to do that unless he is ARRESTING the man.

If the officer was simply “detaining” him, he still must have a “reasonable suspicion” that a crime is occurring, and if the photographer was that far away I cannot imagine the officer can articulate any crime that he ‘reasonably’ thought was occurring. He’s trained and paid to know the very important differences when an citizen’s freedom can be even temporarily taken and when not. I hope Kotran sues, and then settles if OSU trains their officers about the rights of photographers, because I think this was a case where the officer did not realize Kotran had the right to photograph those cows.

I am a grad and a cop, and I can already see where this will go. If Kotran does not sue, OSU will likely make it look like they had a right to do what they did. That will be complete BS unless they can establish that somehow Kotran was committing a crime. In short, the officer detained Kotran because he didn’t know he could tell the Agricultural female that he DOES have the right to photograph the incident, and found it ‘easier’ to intimidate Kotran than to ‘go out on a limb’ and not act on the complaint from the female. That’s why he needs training on what is illegal and what is not about photographers. He apparently was in the ‘fake it ’till you make it’ stage of learning how to be a police officer that we all go though in our first few years where we just ‘wing’ it and hope we get it right when we are uneasy or unsure of ourselves.

“Interesting that he conveniently left the part about violating the photographer’s 4th amendment rights by shuffling through his wallet without probable cause or permission. Cops sure do have a hard time remembering all those pesky amendments and rights don’t they?

Not all of us. That was the exact point I made in an earlier post.

You’d be AMAZED at the unprofessional, juvenile, arrogant behavior that many cops have beyond what you are even imagining. When I got this job, I thought all cops were polite, professional, and mature where only the bad ones make the news. Boy was I flabbergasted.

@Chris, You are wrong about that. OSU cops are indeed FULL POLICE. 100%. They are NOT mere ‘security’.

That’s standard behavior for herd animals when there is a group of females but no male. The alpha female takes on the role of male. Happens with horses as well. Farmers look for this if they are doing AI (standard for dairy farms, having a bull there is the exception, not the rule).

I just watched an old Emergency! episode on Hulu where a detective jumped all over Roy and Johnny for prioritizing the liquor store robber with the sucking chest wound over the cop with a through-and-through flesh wound to the leg.

Seems some things never change.

I actually had to threaten a municipal patrolman with arrest as he was foolishly interfering with an interview I was conducting with a subject. Throwing protocol aside, he was “cowboying” his way around on that sidewalk in view of others. It was showing off in my book, which pissed me off. I abhor clowns that, when in uniform, act as if they’re all that and more. There’s a right time and place for that stuff. That kind of crap places an ugly image on those who truly serve. It gets people hurt………..and sued.

Apparently OSU is not known for their mad team-roping skills.

found your site on del.icio.us today and really liked it.. i bookmarked it and will be back to check it out some more later