Pixiq

“I need to see your ID… You could be a terrorist”

translated:

“We have nothing better to do to justify our existence than to hassle you right now. Even if our pretense for doing so is patently ridiculous.”
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

When exactly is this shit going to stop? Do the cops even realize how fucking ridiculous they are being?

And…PA doesn’t have a “stop and id” statute…so Jack could have told them to pound sand when they asked for his ID.

This one’s close to home. When did this happen?
Roger Baumgarten recently posted..Mid-Penn U15 Lacrosse 5-22-10

A couple of weeks ago. I’ve been holding this story because of other news.
Carlos Miller recently posted..Pennsylvania photographer detained for photographing police station

Where did all of these moronic cops get the idea that the first stage of all terrorist attacks is sending someone to take pictures?

This is ESPECIALLY true with data that’s available on the internet.

I think they’ve been watching too many movies.

Besides that, anyone that was going to take pictures for terrorist reconnaissance is going to be a little more covert about it.
Difster recently posted..Lessons From Mexico

Uh oh. Time to alert Daddy Justice! (daddyjustice.com)

In a circumstance like this, are you legally obligated to talk to the police? What would have happened to him if he just stood there stone faced? (not to be confused with “stoned face”)

In the future it would be useful to post contact information for the relevant authorities/press where this incidents occur.

It looks like garages of "fast & furious"

Looks like a pitstop :D

Don’t keep pointing out Google Earth….. next thing ya know it will have mysteriously disappeared from the interwebs….

Actually, DD_838, Google Earth won’t go anywhere because what they are doing is legal AND they have the billions to protect themselves. You, on the other hand, have a life to live outside of fighting for your first amendment rights.

Wow, this one is really close by. So much for hoping cops here weren’t as law-illiterate.

Since I live in NYC and never drive anywhere but take cabs, walk or use the subway, I leave my driver’s license and all other IDs at home. If a cop asks for my ID, I can’t produce it because I won’t have it on me.

These episodes are pure harassment. I don’t think cops are actually stupid enough to believe that all amateur photographers are terrorists. I think it’s less a matter of them being stupid, and more a matter of them hyped up on testosterone from all the steroids they’re taking, and the thrill of power over the defenseless.

Whenever this happens, don’t play their game. If you’re legally obligated to provide your name, you should do that. But then remain silent.

Remember: never talk to the police, under any circumstances. Watch this if you need to be convinced: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i8z7NC5sgik

Yeah Matt, I’m just up in Lebanon, so maybe you and I need to hit Lancaster and pay Jack a visit, show him how it’s really done!

Discrete != discreet. The first has several meanings, none of which are what you meant. The second one means careful and purposefully unobtrusive.

It’s one thing to be outraged by things like this and post that outrage on this site. It’s another thing to do something.

For each abuse of power, we should start an email campaign to the local press and local officials. Hopefully this will bring added attention to the issue.

Here’s some contact info for this story:

Lancaster Online contact page:
http://support.lancasteronline.com/eSupport/

Editorial Desk of Intelligencer Journal
intellnews@lnpnews.com

Wow, this comes as a HUGE shock to me. I was just in Lancaster a month or two ago and I took pictures of the actual building right in front of a cop, with a cop car driving by right behind me and not one of them said a word to me. It’s hard for me to believe he got in trouble for taking a picture of this… I mean, not only did I take pictures of the police building in front of police, but I also took a picture of the post office and other government buildings right in front of police officers on horses. Maybe I didn’t get any trouble because I’m a young female? No clue.

(Also, I find it kinda ironic that if you go to the street view of the above Google Maps search, there is a cop right behind the Google van. Haha.)
Allison recently posted..Untitled

Carlos,

Thanks for posting this, and that Google Maps image at the end is the real kicker. The absurdity of what I had to put up with is minor compared to many stories here, but I still appreciate you getting the word out. Police need to learn that photographers are not criminals and don’t deserve this kind of treatment. Next time I’ll hit the video record button.

The police station is across the street the from an art school with an active art photography program so there’s plenty of photo work in the area.

I appreciate the other supportive comments as well, and the above description is exactly as it happened that day. I am certain plenty of people take pics and don’t get stopped. That’s what makes the harassment all the more egregious.

Thanks.
Jack Myers.

The google picture is better than the original.

Wow. This isn’t just close to home. Its right in my backyard.

I’m not going to take this. Tuesday (I have class tomorrow night) I’m going to go there and film. And Wednesday. And Thursday. We’ll see about this. And maybe you all will see too.

Bob nailed it. Actually Bob almost took my comment word for word. They won’t go after Google because they know what kind of resources Google can tap. I admit that I would like to see it go down though.

I wonder if this is in fact the fault of the cops or if these idiotic orders are coming from higher up. I’m no necessarily defending the officers actions, but they have a job just like we all do. Either way it needs to stop. I’ve been wanting to test to cops around here, but I’m gonna wait until I get a decent point and shoot camera that I can sacrifice to the cause since my DSLR is a source of income for me. Having that confiscated and kept for any length of time could lose me desperately needed money.

I would suspect that the cops in this small city wouldn’t care, but who knows?

Ironically, I just got this via a friend.

I thought it was an amusing role reversal, check it out!

http://newsarse.com/2010/08/06/terrorists-sick-of-being-treated-like-pho...

“We have cameras and have been watching you” Then maybe they are the terrorists?

When you try that you’ll be arrested for interfering with a police investigation. In theory, we have freedom. In practice, we don’t.

Oh.. and it doesn’t matter if any of the charges against you are false or are later dropped. You will still be taking a nice little 7 hour detour to the station.
Jackson recently posted..Five Penis Enlargement Myths Dispelled

Yes, every police officer in the history of the world is an awful person. ALL cops love tasering 12 year old girls, shooting dogs in dog parks, running over your grandparents, blowing up your science project, parking in handicap spaces at Lowes, and every single police officer to ever live was a horrible person that even Hitler would have found offensive.

I highly doubt that Lancaster, PA is a priority hit for any terrorist group. Police, fire stations and other institutions that accept federally appropriated funds must justify how they spend the monies under the guise of “preventing terrorism”. Really, we are going in circles and wasting taxpayer funds. Lawmakers at all levels should reevaluate how these monies are being spent.

Hey Sydney Carton — you don’t have to leave your ID at home. New York state’s stop-and-ID statute only kicks in when you’re being detained…before that level, cops can ask for ID but you’re not legally required to show it to them.

I’m not a lawyer, but here’s what I found out when I researched it a while back:
http://www.telescreen.org/2007/11/talking-to-the-.html
Vidiot recently posted..My Rides Here

If I was a terrorist, wouldn’t I want to blow up something important, that people needed, or cared about anyway?

I would think the police department would be somewhat low on the list relative to a power plant or water treatment plant.

Also, there is the chance too many people might cheer on the PD getting blown up. In some places this might be considered doing the people a favor. XD
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

A police station could be a target for terrorism.

Traditionally, this is limited to places or regions where the police are regarded by at least a part of he population as an opressive agent of any given government, with or without actual validity to that idea.

A good example of this in modern times is Northern Ireland, but it’s also relevant for the Basque ETA-led resistance against Spain (I don’t spin them as terrorists or freedom fighters, so please don’t start arguing that, it’s completely irrelevant for this particular argument) and PKK in Turkey.

A police station can also be a target if it has great symbolic meaning. Scotland Yard in London would be one such target, I suppose the Hoover building might be one as well, and in a stretch, you could even see the HQ of the NYPD as one, if the logic of the attacker is twisted enough.

The third, and most probable in the case of this police station, is that the police station is attacked as a secondary target, as part of a larger action. If you want to hit something in said town, taking out the police station isn’t essential, but it does help. That’s a tactic that’s actually a little more relevant to normal criminals, if you ask me, but it’s still possible, if not plausible (it takes an enormous logistical organization, not to mention know-how, manpower and a lot of equipment. This alone makes it risky to plan such an attack on a secondary target, as it needs involvement of more people, which leads to a greater risk of leaks.

Guy Fawkes were caught because he needed more money, and therefore involved more people in his conspiracy, one of which leaked the gunpowder plot to the King’s men. Just to exemplify.

I don’t think muslim extremists will do photo recon as obvious as this, though, and we’ve already established that that recon can be done via Google Earth anyway.

@Chap

You’re unfamiliar with “XD,” aren’t you?

(But seriously, the PA department in this story is really none of those places you describe, anyway.)
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

No, I am not. I’ve been a part of internet culture for a decade now, I know what it is.

I’m just pedantic.

Well I stopped by and took a bunch of video, not only of the emergency entrance/exit, but also of the whole station. No cops came out. But I was using just an iPhone so maybe they didn’t know what I was doing. I’m going to try tomorrow with a more “visible” camera.

I’m also going to try contacting City Hall and the Chief of Police about this incident.

fuck the police!!!!

They do not get to use the “you could be a terrorist” routine. That argument has been rejected. The police did not get any extra powers because of the whole “terrorism” bull crap. They don’t get to use terrorism as a precursor to stop people for filming. I reject that notion that they have that self proclaimed authority.

I’m just curious if anyone does carry I.D. stating they are a terrorist.

“The bearer of this card is a full member in good standing of Al Qaeda women’s auxiliary chapter 433, and is entitled to all the benefits afforded by each chapter of the Organization. Do not detain, question, impede, or otherwise interfere with the bearer’s free action or movement.

- OBL, Grand Wazoo”

Okay, maybe I’m missing something here…..a gentleman claiming to take photos for purposes of artistic expression……..well, again maybe I’m missing it…..but where are the artistic elements in the carport that likely leads to where prisoners are loaded and unloaded; not to mention if the carport is the artistic component of his picture why not pursue an artistic subject where the sensitivity is considerably less??????

oh, on the Google Earth thing……I can bet ya that Google provides the photos in less than real time and I’m confident one can’t get a Google Earth photo of the more sensitive buildings in the United States, so in my opinion….it’s apples to oranges when the comparison is made……..again, I truly wish I had the time alot of the voyeur videographers have to go around stirring up the hornets nest……just hope one day you guys aren’t in need and KARMA decides to step in…….

Jack #18, while your presumption “photographers aren’t criminals” could very well be spot on but I would challenge your statement. I mean, say you and your children are strolling in a public park and a shady looking character is sitting on the park bench minding his own business, within his legal right, he begins snapping photos of all the little kiddies at the park including your children……what do ya do? Now, just remember he’s well within his legal right, there’s no expectation of privacy in a public park, so he can photo anyone he wants including the children, and the best part………he’s claiming to do it all for “Artistic Expression”…….now let me ask……how many parents are going to report him to the Park Rangers, then the Police? I suspect every parent who recognizes what he’s doing will……but now, that’s not the point is it? He’s doing it for artistic expression and he’s well within his legal right……..unfortunately, we all know how this scenario plays out but it’s just like all these other folks who want to claim constitutional protections while photographing…….while they may very well be within their legal right, that doesn’t mean they haven’t, aren’t or do not intend to break/challenge the law…….