Pixiq

Says the video is unavailable.
Buzz recently posted..growing kernels in Ubuntu grub

Really? Try again because I’m seeing it perfectly.

Kaa-ching!!!! Yea BABY!!! There should be a law that the offending cops have to pay at least part of the settlement, and the rest from the retirement fund.

It is really just becoming too dangerous out there to even be around cops. If they do something wrong, they’ll often threaten the victim to cover up their mistake. The best policy these days seems to be: if you see the police, get the hell out of there.

I hear cops complain a lot about people suing the police, saying that they’re just after money. You know, in cases like these money means nothing. You can’t buy peace of mind, and today there is no peace of mind in dealing with police.

I wonder how many times this twit was able to get away with this type of behavior before getting caught on video and with a mainstream media reporter. I am sure it was more than a few times.

Exactly the kind of person that never, ever should have been a police officer of any sort to begin with.

I wonder how many “frivolous” complaints were filed against him and dismissed in his career. That would be an interesting thing to look into.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

If she puposely struck his car then he didn’t do anything wrong.

Yeah, baseline human elbows can do a lot of damage to automobiles. And people elbow cars all the time.

Kind of like assaulting an officer’s fist with your face, huh Oscar?
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

Justice!

@Carlos, it was saying, “The video you are trying to watch is currently unavailable. Please check back soon.” However I was able to copy the link and paste it into a new window and watch it that way–odd.

That cop has a bad potty mouth to say the least.
Buzz recently posted..growing kernels in Ubuntu grub

Bravo Mike. Very nice speech and historical reference from the Coast Guard of the 1700s. While very pretty sentiments, it does nothing to change several realities that you seem determined to ignore.

If you ignore disrespectful acts such as spitting on a patrol car, you encourage others to act out in similar and worse ways. If you make a quick arrest in these situations, it shows does intimidate the crowd into behaving better. I know the word “intimidation” is a dirty word to you but there is nothing wrong with using it as a force multiplier. Officers are taught in the academy that a few officers can handle a large number of people if they have the correct bearing. However if that crowd senses weakness, things can go very bad.

Now I know you will never understand or accept these things because you have your trusty camera *snicker* but I know it and any other officer dealing with large crowds or groups of drunks know it.

You wrote, “Bear also in mind that JL does not actually seem to know the difference between fear/resentment and respect, and as such does not have the capability to care which he is getting.”

The sad reality is that for many segments of the population, the only thing they respect are shows of force. I know this probably isn’t true in the trendy independent coffee shops or places like Whole Foods but it is very true in the areas I deal with. You can project your insecurities on me as much as you like but I am not going to risk a loss of control due to your delicate sensibilities.

And to answer Norwegian, it does not matter what thought process led me to arrest the subject as long as it is a legal arrest with probable cause. The law only cares that I had a legal right to stop and arrest the person. Since there would be an illegal act committed (crossing against the light, littering, or whatever) the judge doesn’t care. So yes I would say that in a court room if asked.

Ah, the condescension of the common bully. I expect no more from you, JL. I also like the accusing me of projecting while you’re the one actually doing it throughout the reply.

(Note to Chap: as you can see, JL comes straight out and says he only cares about what’s legal, not what’s right. What he can get away with, not what he should do.)

I’m sure you do patrol *much* rougher territory than I’ve ever been in, over where you are in anonymous internet tough guy town. Well, probably not. You don’t know where I’ve been, and we can’t know where you even are. It’s easy to make claims from behind a handle on the internet.

But yes, using fear to keep people in line does have a long history;

“And how we burned in the camps later, thinking: What would things have been like if every Security operative, when he went out at night to make an arrest, had been uncertain whether he would return alive and had to say goodbye to his family? Or if, during periods of mass arrests, as for example in Leningrad, when they arrested a quarter of the entire city, people had not simply sat there in their lairs, paling in terror at every bang of the downstairs door and at every step on the staircase, but had understood they had nothing left to lose and had boldly set up in the downstairs hall an ambush of half a dozen people with axes, hammers, pokers, or whatever else was at hand. The Organs would very quickly have suffered a shortage of officers and transport and, notwithstanding all of Stalin’s thirst; the cursed machine would have ground to a halt!”
- The Gulag Archipelago, Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

You just compared arresting someone for crossing against the light with rounding up people and putting them in a gulag labor camp. I guess you are desperate when you start bringing up Stalin. Is Hitler or Pol Pot right around the corner? Get a sense of perspective and stop embarrassing yourself.

And since you seem to be waxing historic today:

“It is not the critic who counts; not the man who points out how the strong man stumbles, or where the doer of deeds could have done them better. The credit belongs to the man who is actually in the arena, whose face is marred by dust and sweat and blood; who strives valiantly; who errs, who comes short again and again, because there is no effort without error and shortcoming; but who does actually strive to do the deeds; who knows great enthusiasms, the great devotions; who spends himself in a worthy cause; who at the best knows in the end the triumph of high achievement, and who at the worst, if he fails, at least fails while daring greatly, so that his place shall never be with those cold and timid souls who neither know victory nor defeat. Shame on the man of cultivated taste who permits refinement to develop into fastidiousness that unfits him for doing the rough work of a workaday world. Among the free peoples who govern themselves there is but a small field of usefulness open for the men of cloistered life who shrink from contact with their fellows. Still less room is there for those who deride of slight what is done by those who actually bear the brunt of the day; nor yet for those others who always profess that they would like to take action, if only the conditions of life were not exactly what they actually are. ”

-Theodore Roosevelt

“You just compared arresting someone for crossing against the light with rounding up people and putting them in a gulag labor camp.”

Absolutely false. Do you buy strawmen by the gross these days?

I’m talking about using fear and intimidation in general, obviously. You don’t have a response for that, so you act like I was saying something else and insult that. Classic.

And then you fall on the old saw of one who has not been a cop can’t judge a cop, which is obviously false, and the Roosevelt quote isn’t even on that topic. A general quote about not letting critics get you down doesn’t justify removing oversight/criticism of any important public institution.

But then we know, the last thing you want is any oversight or accountability from people that aren’t of your “tribe.” It’s much easier to make anonymous, condescending comments from behind your keyboard, and it really is “us against them” for you.

Keep making it “us against them” and trying to use fear. It’s only going to get you in trouble in eventually.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

Spit on a cop car, go to jail. Fine.

Drop a candy wrapper and cower to the Judge Dredd (JL’s) mentality. Yeah, right. Thank you for your cooperation.

“…… to test a man’s character, give him authority.” – Abraham Lincoln

Someone’s character is easily seen in their posts.

“Someone’s character is easily seen in their posts.”

That is very true indeed. Glad to see that when (if) you were a cop, you put up with that kind of treatment. I am sure the public and your co-workers really respected you for it.

There’s no getting through to Johnny. He obviously can’t tell the difference between respect and fear/resentment/avoiding someone you know is going to use their authority for petty reasons.

Judging by how much he posts about it, he seems to spend most of his time dealing with inebriated people after the bars close. There’s just no talking sense into someone who’s effectively an overpaid bouncer with delusions of grandeur.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

What do you do for a living Mike?

His occupation is stated on his blog. Take a look.

Aim for the center of mass; empty the clip.

Another stupid cop that should be locked up and safely kept away from society, and the cost deducted from the police budget.

It’s very clear he is mentally unstable.

Thankfully this nut didnt electrocute, club, punch, rape, or shoot her dead.

Gosh Oscar, Mike fixes bikes and computers. Of course he understands the best way to deal with drunken troublemakers. He breaks out his camera!

I can talk about dealing with drunken crowds but he will never known what I’m talking about. He’s a self-proclaimed expert on police tactics though.

You mean he’s one of those bike weirdos like the critical mass people. No wonder he doesn’t understand police work.

JL, you should agree not to tell mike how to install a horn or a real neat bell and he can agree not to tell you how to deal with crime.

@johnny

Where anyone else works isn’t the issue: it doesn’t change how you behave at your job, and most adult human beings can tell when someone is being a bully.

You’ve pretty much just told everyone who’s not a cop that comments on this blog to shut up. Let’s see how well that plays out.

(BTW, where have I worked at before, Johnny? You really want to commit to who I haven’t and have dealt with before? Hint: a list of hobbies isn’t a current or former places of employment.)
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

Why don’t you just say who you dealt with mike.

Oscar, with each fallacious comment you make you degrade yourself. It hurts to watch you trollify each thread.

Pot, meet kettle.

Michael, having a good working knowledge in a field is different than being an expert in it. To remain on the payroll as a cop, one doesn’t have to be a complete expert. The standards aren’t that high for obvious reasons, and the context of the comments posted by the two who are overly defensive (like cornered animals) prove it. I’ve seen a lot of this type, who were minimaly successful, come and go. Those that went did the rest of us a favor.

Dodge, considering you took my side on arresting the drunk for spitting on the car mike would probably consider you an insecure bully who got picked on in high school.

Much as I hate to acknowledge obvious troll that is obvious, I think Dodge is pretty reasonable. Just because I think JL is petty in his reasoning for his action, doesn’t mean I automatically doesn’t mean I said the arrest wasn’t legal. Hence no substantive disagreement with Dodge.

Then again, this would require certain participants to understand nuances of a discussion above a grade school playground level.

It’s not about can, it’s about should, is what I’m getting at. But like I said, some people here can’t get that. And the fact that they can’t understand that is the entire underlying problem.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

Mike, it doesn’t matter if she did damage or not, if you intentionally punch, kick, elbow etc etc a police car you get arrested. I remember arresting a guy coming out of a bar for spitting on my car. He was found guilty by a jury of disorderly conduct.

I don’t know what happened in this incident because the video appears to be edited, unless she really didn’t start recording until after but if she elbowed the car she deserved to get arrested.

Interesting how Dodgy changed his stance on this. Also very interesting that Mike now thinks an arrest for spitting on a patrol car is acceptable. I think neither of them can make up their minds and they just want to make sure they disagree with me.

So for the record Mike, do you think that arresting a drunk that spits on your patrol car is acceptable? If you do think it is acceptable, please explain why. From what I can tell in between your insults and quotations, you do not agree that a drunk should be arrested for such an offense even if it is legal. Your boy Dodge stated earlier “Spitting on a police car is a prime example of disorderly conduct, worthy of an arrest.”

If you agree on that, then what the heck are we arguing about here? Do you even know?

@Johnny

Apparently you haven’t figured it out, but that’s what I’ve been saying all along as well.

You still can’t tell the difference between “legally can” and “ethically/morally should.”

But you’ve never been able to. Not now or before you took your little “vacation” from the internet.

Once again you use your standard tactic of the straw man – stating that Dodge and I somehow changed our stances, when we actually haven’t done any such thing, then using that false position to attack.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

You still didn’t answer the question Mike. You constantly contradict yourself and then go back and say you never said any such thing. Umm you may not know this but all your previous postings are preserved above your last one.

Try again please.

Do you agree with Dodge’s statement “Spitting on a police car is a prime example of disorderly conduct, worthy of an arrest.”? Either you agree with him or you don’t. It’s not that hard a question.

In regards to arresting the spitter mike said a professional with a secure sense of self esteem would probably ignore it or give him a warning.

Mike went on to say “a tiny little man with no self-esteem (too short? Small dick?), who demands all “respect his authoritah” and feels he has something to prove to any onlookers would escalate to whatever arrest he could manage.”

Mike, that wasn’t a very nice thing to say about dodge.

Basic human reasoning.

You guys are right on the spitting. It’s just wrong. And quite honestly, it would have pissed me off. But the other stuff crosses over into the ridiculous realm. There’s a distinct separation between being a drunken nasty ass hole and being a litterbug or jaywalker.

Oscar, your comment was funny, but lighten up a wee bit and elevate yourself to at least JL’s level.

@Johnny

I haven’t contradicted myself; you have yet to support this claim.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

JL, mike can’t answer the question, if he says he agrees with dodge then he will be contradicting himself and if he says he disagrees then he will be disagreeing with dodge. He can’t win so he will be better off not answering. Mark my word he will not answer.

Mike,

Seriously? That’s all you got? You just stick your fingers in your ears and say “lalalalala”?

You still haven’t answered the question on if you agree with Dodge’s statement about arresting a spitter. You have also fail to address the contradictory statements made by you that Oscar was kind enough to post in comment #123. Read your statements in comment #54 and then read your statements in comment #119. Then to top it off, read your statements in comment #121 in which you deny changing your stance.

con·tra·dic·tion   [kon-truh-dik-shuhn]
–noun
1. the act of contradicting; gainsaying or opposition.
2.assertion of the contrary or opposite; denial.
3.a statement or proposition that contradicts or denies another or itself and is logically incongruous.
4.direct opposition between things compared; inconsistency.
5.a contradictory act, fact, etc.

I draw your attention to definition portion #3. Please take the time to read it.

I think we’re done here. Next topic please.

“Hence no substantive disagreement with Dodge.”

But like I said, trolls can’t see something that isn’t pure black or white. Johnny wants to redefine what I’ve said on his own terms; there’s no reason this has to be. I’m not inconsistent, Johnny just wants to play a trick where he demands an either/or answer to a question that doesn’t have to be answered that way – it’s called a false dichotomy fallacy* I believe – and thinks he can claim some sort of victory on a contradiction that doesn’t actually exist.

*also called a false dilemma, either/or, black or white, the missing middle, etc.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

oscar,

Get real. Why would a reporter for a news organization covering a public event go out of their way to strike a police car for absolutely no apparent reason? And that’s not the only B.S. charge that the cops threw at her. They also accused her of trying to incite a riot. Such charges were clearly ridiculous. Obviously, the prosecutor thought they were ludicrous as well because he didn’t file charges at all.

Do you have any common sense at all?

I rest my case

In fact…

#54 and 119 aren’t contradiction at all. I’m saying it’s a dick move to arrest someone out of petty vengeance (not even saying it’s not legal to) and then Dodge Ball says:

“Spit on a cop car, go to jail. Fine.

Drop a candy wrapper and cower to the Judge Dredd (JL’s) mentality. Yeah, right. Thank you for your cooperation.

“…… to test a man’s character, give him authority.” – Abraham Lincoln

Someone’s character is easily seen in their posts.”

Where he seems to be saying it’s “fine” but in the next sentence implies that it’s still on the level of a dick move…

Since the implication is just that, an implication and not a direct statement, yes, “no substantive disagreement” is just about perfect. We both seem to be saying similar if not the same things.

Your examples only prove there isn’t a contradiction, Johnny.

And you’ve still managed not to address the idea that you’re not even getting actual respect from the public in the process!
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

And that is, in my mind, the real issue.

Is it possible for either of our two cops to admit the obvious, that cops play a role in making cops less respected?

Mike,

You sure are using a lot of semantical limbo to try to weasel out of having to admit you contradicted yourself. FYI, you aren’t fooling anyone and you sound ridiculous.

Really mike you sound absurd, just give up on this one and move on. Next time just be more careful what you say and maybe you won’t contradict yourself again.

Spitting on a cop car, is far different then a cop trying to scare a women hitting her elbow and then trying to cover his ass. Protect and serving his own ass. arresting/kidnapping, her intimidating her. He was surrounded by other police officers if he had a shred of probable cause they would have backed him. Maybe the Good cops saw a chance to rid themselves of a Control freak.
WE are citizens, we are not combatants. We are citizens we are not suspects. Standing up for your God given rights, should be respected. Not taken as a threat. Taking every step possible to side step the constitution,The law men and women have died protecting. By Lying ,by intimidation, and treating Americans like cattle.
Before Prohibition Americans had respect for the police,
The POLICE had respect for the law. Respect for the people paying there salary. Police that were humble enough to consider themselves servants.They even put it in the Cars. Tell a cop now, he is a servant and he will violate 4 or 5 of your God given rights in 10 minutes time. SO that he can CONTROL the situation. What is the situation? His EGO has been hurt. Nothing more then perpetual Natural or synthetic roid rage.
A little piece of freedom is taken away. The average tax payer sees his fellows being treated like cattle.Working his ass off to pay for it. Little light goes off. Till eventually the RIOT HAPPENS. The Riot that was caused BY the POLICE treating its employers, like cattle to be controlled over a long period of time.
Riots don’t start the day of the Riot. They start after years of abuse BY DYSFUNCTIONAL CONTROL freaks.