Pixiq

It seems like “the powers that be” can just post a sign to create a law. Where is the reality check here, and what are the consequences for not obeying a metal sign? WTF?
Rob´s last blog ..Hey Little Boy, You Want Some Candy?

If a camera can compromise security, then you’re doing it wrong.

If you aren’t already on the list, you are now!

Just kidding of course.

It is a simple scare tactic. Scare people to think that taking pictures in the area can compromise the security of our nation, and the public will be extra observant of what is going on around the area. At the same time the things we should really be seeing are going on on the other side.

It’s like an area I know of well. There is a building that has a super small AT&T sign on the building, and a mote all the way around the building. Outside of the mote is two chain link fences with barbed wire on them. This building looks like it is a top secret facility, but in reality is is nothing more than a storage building, with gardening equipment and supplies inside. About two blocks away is a small brick structure with telephone and internet equipment inside that could compromise an entire city if not more, but there is no security at all but a simple pad lock and a deadbolt.

People looking to cause a problem (terrorists) and dont know any better would probably target the wrong building.
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That photo was taken inside the station, not outside. The wall you see with the “Pentagon” sign on it is the inner surface of the barrel vault which forms the station’s outer boundary. This photo is just a few steps from the northbound platform, which sits much higher than other stations in the system (the Pentagon station is odd since the platforms aren’t on the same level).

To me, photographing military installations is pretty simple. If you want to argue with a guy who has a fully automatic weapon, and the freedom to use it as he pleases, go right ahead.

If you don’t want to have a closed-casket funeral in exchange for taking a picture… stay way from military installations.

Arguing your rights in a court of law is one thing. Arguing them with an M-16 will lose every time.

It’s (easily) arguable that the Pentagon station is not a military installation. The station is owned by the WMATA, not the DOD.

Don’t be misled, the FBI has plenty of video from surrounding businesses of what hit the Pentagon on 9/11. Up to this point, they have refused to release it.

Couldn’t the sign be interpreted as “no photography past this point” ?
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“Arguing them with an M-16 will lose every time.”

Tell that to the US government and its military.

So are drawings and taking notes not allowed either?

Why not prohibit cell phones, rucksacks/backpacks, and shoes?

All of which, have been used in terrorist attacks.

I don’t know who wrote to Erin (thanks for your help and support in the past) but they can’t even get the text of the CRF correct, not that I find the surprising.
Use of visual recording devices.
(32 CFR 234.15)
(a) The use of cameras or other visual recording devices on the Pentagon Reservation is prohibited, unless the use of such items are approved by the Pentagon Force Protection Agency, the Installation Commander, or the Office of the Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs.
(b) It shall be unlawful to make any photograph, sketch, picture, drawing, map or graphical representation of the Pentagon Reservation without first obtaining permission of the Pentagon Force Protection Agency, Installation
Commander, or the Office of the Assistant to the Secretary of Defense for Public Affairs.
This is from the Electronic Code of Federal Regulations and “e-CFR Data is current as of March 31, 2010 “.

There is an interesting case appeal USA vs. CREPEAU 1:07cr242 http://www.websupp.org/data/EDVA/1:07-cr-00242-8-EDVA.pdf were Ms. Crepeau was arrested for taking photos. She went to court and the charges were dismissed. She then appealed the dismissal because she believes she should have been acquitted. This allowed the USA to avoid a judicial review of the regulation which Ms. Crepeau wanted to happen. So the larger question of if the government can ban photography on the reservation hasn’t been tested. But from reading the appeal it seems if you decide to challenge your arrest the government will dismiss the charge against you if you are taking photos outside. Ms. Crepeau you are a patriot and the guy that arrested you is a pinhead.

There is a permanent exception in place for the memorial area.

This brings us to the question of if the Metro Station is part of the Pentagon Reservation or not. On this I have no idea if it is or isn’t.

If the station is part of the reservation photography is banned, if it’s not then photography inside the station is perfectly fine.

This could be something to do some research on and come up with a really good answer before going there to take some photos or not.
Duane Kerzic´s last blog ..2010-03-09 Yahoo Hard At Work

I have been in places where all of that was banned along with cigarettes, matches, lighters, lose coins. You had to change clothing before entering and chage back when you left.
Duane Kerzic´s last blog ..2010-03-09 Yahoo Hard At Work

The Metro station is on (under) the military base called the Pentagon Reservation, for what it’s worth. The Federal law quoted above therefore gives the installation commander the authority to ban photography.

Whether it’s a silly misuse of authority is a different matter entirely. I’m sure the framers of the law thought it would be used to ban pictures of super-secret Area-51 spyplanes, not the outside of urban administrative buildings, let alone public subway stations, for Pete’s sake.

Part 32 CRF 234 is about Conduct on the Pentagon Reservation so it was all about it being used to ban pictures of the outside of largest office building in the world.
Applicability. (32 CFR 234.2)
The provisions of this part apply to all areas, lands, and waters on or adjoining the Pentagon Reservation and under the jurisdiction of the United States, and to all persons entering in or on the property. They supplement those penal
provisions of Title 18, United States Code, relating to crimes and criminal procedure and those provisions of State law that are federal criminal offenses by virtue of the Assimilative
Crimes Act, 18 U.S.C. 13.

The question still hangs on if the Station is under the jurisdiction of the USA or if it’s part of property that’s under a different jutisdiction. As long as you aren’t someplace that is under the jurisdiction of the USA none of these rule apply.
Duane Kerzic´s last blog ..2010-03-09 Yahoo Hard At Work

Thinking logically, a terrorist with a camera is a terrorist without a bomb. That seems like it should be a good thing.

I think you misunderstand me. My point is that if you want to go and take pictures of a military installation, and they don’t want you to, some sniper is gonna drop you from 500 yards and you won’t even hear the bullet that kills you, or they’ll just send up a Predator drone and take out your whole neighborhood.

Your family could go to court and argue it, but you’d still be dead.

You can argue with the US Government, even though it usually just wastes your time. The US military scares the piss out of me. If they say jump, trust me, I’m gonna ask “how high?”

A couple of guys a few years back decided to argue about their rights with the entire British Army. They weren’t scared. We shouldn’t be either. I’d rather be dead then in chains.

K-

What an imagination you have. Are these scenarios taking place in the United States?

As far as I know the penalty for photographing military installations in the United States is not death by sniper or drone.

I was trying to remember the quote from V when he wouldn’t let Evey leave. He mentioned that she needn’t know the exact location, she could tell the color of the cement. Its all paranoia.
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There might be a secret gubmint installation in that station disguised as a token booth… could be the elevator entrance Maxwell Smart takes…