The snitches among us
Update: Does Kurt Greenbaum need to resign?
St. Louis Post-Dispatch social media editor Kurt Greenbaum proudly tells the story of how he caused a man to lose his job after the man posted a vulgar comment on the newspaper’s blog.
Greenbaum says the man used a single word, “a vulgar expression for a part of a woman’s anatomy,” which got deleted within a minute of it being posted. The man then left the same comment again, which Greenbaum says he deleted.
In the process, Greenbaum noticed that the commenter’s email address came from a local school, so he felt he had no choice but to call the school and inform them of the situation.
School officials asked him to forward them the email, which he did. They ended up tracking the comments to a single computer and confronting the employee, who resigned on the spot.
And newspapers wonder why they are dying.
While I sit here trying to decide whether or not to call Greenbaum a pussy, I realize he is much worse than that. He is a disgrace to journalism. He violated the confidentiality between his readers and the newspaper.
His response might be understandable if the reader had threatened his life. But the reader was simply responding to a blog post titled “What’s the craziest thing you’ve ever eaten?”
The commenter was obviously trying to be funny, even if his humor was juvenile and sophomoric.
Greenbaum, who calls himself STL Social Media Guy, should understand that blogs attract all kinds of diverse personalities and for the most part, they are harmless because these are people who are only spewing words.
Although the reader might have been breaking school policy by leaving vulgar comments on a newspaper blog during work hours, he was not breaking the law, so it is not the newspaper’s role to snitch on him.
If the word pussy bothered him so much, Greenbaum could just have left a warning in the comments section asking the reader not to leave profane comments anymore.
And if the reader continued to do so, all Greenbaum had to do was block his IP address where his comments would be held in moderation. After all, this is a guy who claims on his resume to be “a proven leader in online and media-related organizations with a record of progressive responsibility.”
Causing a guy to lose his job for using the word pussy is not progressive responsibility. It’s the complete opposite.
I’ve blocked a few IP addresses of commenters who continually left vulgar comments that had nothing to do with the discussion at hand. And I only did so after deleting several of their comments and realizing they were not going to stop. And this only holds the comment in moderation, allowing me to choose whether or not I want to post it.
The worst that happens is that the comment doesn’t get posted, causing the commenter to get frustrated and leave more comments which never get posted and forcing the commenter to finally give up. If that commenter decides to leave a normal comment, then it gets posted and life goes on.
One of the commenters was posting from the Miami Police Department. Another was posting from a local church. Another was posting from a prison in Northern California.
And another was posting from the federal reserve, which I ended up calling him out on the same thread. But that’s where it ended. He never left another comment again.
I guess I could have contacted their employers and asked them to investigate but that is just not my style. I grew up learning you don’t snitch unless your life depended on it. Otherwise, you handle your own conflicts.
Obviously, not everybody thinks as I do.
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Comments
if he wrote “dick” he probably wouldnt have ratted on him…
Kurt Greenbaum is a pussy.
I wonder if the word “douchenozzle” would be moderated by this douchenozzle?
I posted the following:
Are you apologizing for getting the guy fired, or are you gloating?
I can think of one-syllable word for the female anatomy that describes you to a tee. There’s an object used to rinse out the female anatomy that describes you even better.”
It lasted less than 5 minutes.
I twittered after commenting:
Make that: Humourless prick @kgreenbaum gets guy fired over blog comment – http://shar.es/azjo9
What a douche.
Also, MisterDNA: outstanding post. The best ever.
We need to start a petition to get him fired
Thanks, anon!
I should have grabbed a screen capture of my comment. When I thought of doing so, it was too late.
I’m going to check in again after midnight (Mr. Greenbaum will hopefully be asleep by then) and see if there’s any choice comments…
This ass is going to get sued for breech of privet info and the loss of the teachers/employees job and he will pay
its gona get hot over there MUAHAHAHA
So far my two-part (really must be more patient) comment has survived:
So basically you’re a humorless jerk, Kurt, and you’re proud of it.
Way to make your paper look good, too, now that everyone knows it has a staff willing to turn people in if they say things the staff dislikes. Ought to be helpful developing sources.
…
Also: the “Think Of The Children!” defense is lame.
What you did may have been legal as well as permissible under your site’s rules, but that doesn’t make it ethical or proportionate to the “offense.”
Writing the gloating blog post about it, however, is what really puts it over the line.
Just think, if you hadn’t posted this, most people would have never known.
Hey Carlos, I enjoyed your snitch story. Sorry about your job.
MisterDNA,
I hope you didn’t post that from work.
Carlos,
I wish I had. Mr. Greenbaum would hear much harsher words than “pussy” if he complained about my posting habits.
According to the article the employee “resigned on the spot.” So – was he “fired”, or did he “resign?” Was he threatened in such a way where he thought it would be better to resign? There’s more to this story then what is written. This doesn’t pass the smell test.
He was probably told to resign or be fired.
This guy bothers me more than the abusive cops I write about because I expect it from them.
One of the problems with modern-day journalists is that they’ve become so corporate and so politically correct.
This is a profession where only a few decades ago people would smoke and drink and curse in the newsroom and it was normal.
It wasn’t for the faint-hearted. Greenbaum wouldn’t have lasted a day back then.
Perhaps we should arrange for Greenbaum to be haunted by the ghost of Damon Runyon.
What an asshat. The things that pass for journalism today is shit. Yourself excluded Carlos. Posted from work, be gentle.
I note that he specifically violated his newspaper’s privacy policy, to wit:
“We will not share individual user information with third parties unless the user has specifically approved the release of that information.”
( from http://www.stltoday.com/help/privacy-policy )
Is that legally binding, I wonder? Does the fired employee now have a cause for action?
If anybody is on Digg, please Digg this up.
http://digg.com/people/The_snitches_among_us
After more than 150 comments from readers criticizing his actions, Kurt Greenbaum closed comments on the post where he gloated about getting the guy fired (and yes, I know the guy technically resigned but he did so under the threat of getting fired, which means he involuntarily lost his job and is entitled to unemployment compensation).
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-editors-desk/the-editors-desk/2009/...
Thanks for posting his pic.
Now we know why that word offended him.
This reminds me of a busybody old lady peeking out of her blinds and calling the cops for every little thing that she doesn’t like. Except for the fact that now someone lost their source of income due to his “investigative reporting”.
Kurt should be the one without a job today.
Kurt Greenbaum = Douchebag
I like how someone in the comments posted the site’s own policy that they would protect the privacy of those who post there. I expect this maybe from some small message board, but for a legitimate paper to disclose people’s identity without a warrant is bullshit.
Oops, I swore. Please don’t get me fired, Carlos.
The comments on his personal site are still there.
http://www.igreenbaum.com/2009/11/post-a-vulgar-comment-at-work-lose-you...
Kurt Greenbaum writes a follow-up post. I leave the first comment.
http://www.stltoday.com/blogzone/the-editors-desk/the-editors-desk/2009/...
I think it’s important to note, that in enacting this cunning master plan, Greenbaum has caused someone to be fired.
By following that action up with not one but *two* blog posts, he has now made it absolutely clear what, when and how he did what he did, and what his nameis, what he looks like and where he works.
However, Greenbaum states that he knows absolutely none of these things about the person he screwed over for no apparent good reason.
A MASTERSTROKE, GREENBAUM, WELL PLAYED.
Someone on another blog posited that Greenbaum might be punking the social media. They pointed out that he’s the only source for any of the info, and nothing has been verified by another source.
@Wes
Which would make him… an even bigger jerk?
@Michaelk42
Yes, or a douchebag, squared
It’d be interesting if Google published Greenbaums’ search history.
Kurt should resign right away if there is any bit of dignity left in him.
Has anyone seen this yet?
http://imgur.com/ELhGP
Man, I would hate to be him now.
This guy sounds like a real curmudgeon.
Oh no I lost my job! Ahhhh!
Another point.
If Kurt dislikes “Vulgarity” so much, then why did he post this?
http://www.igreenbaum.com/2009/09/yes-bloggers-we-can-laugh-at-ourselves/
Last line in the post: “(note: some language isn’t for little ears).”
I was beginning to feel sorry for the guy myself, but dammit, the hypocrisy from this guy is getting thick…
And this (directly from his blog):
“‘Skanky’ Blogging, Anonymity and What’s Right – More helpful fodder for those of us who are constantly fending off attacks on the ability for readers to post anonymously. I was particularly fond of your point, “People who’d ban anonymity don’t seem to realize that it’s technically impossible unless we’re willing to turn over all of our communications in every venue to a central authority — a system that would herald the end of liberty.”
It’s a point I’ve made often to anyone who will listen. Even Facebook, which prides itself on “requiring” real names, can live up to that requirement.”
That video contains words that are more vulgar than pussy, so he is really coming across as a hypocrite.
And this (again, from his own Blog):
“A blog item on Poynter.org last month noted several examples of news organizations that had curtailed or eliminated story comments because of their concerns over quality — particularly racist rants and personal attacks on readers.”
What personal attacks on readers might you be referring to, Kurt? The ones that get them fired?
We’re waist-deep in that hypocrisy now…
Want more?
Here ya go (again, Kurt’s own words):
“The importance of anonymous speech in our democracy has already been widely discussed. That the right to be anonymous would ever be at issue is ridiculous, though I will confess this right now: It’s very easy for me to don the rose-colored glasses on the subject. I’ve never been the victim of an anonymous attack on my character or my livelihood. I’ve not been denied business or opportunity because, unknown to me, someone made a flawed judgment of me based on a scurrilous, anonymous attack…”
Getting deeper…
Ok, that is enough.
This guy just made one HUGE mistake, or he is a huge hypocrite. I don’t think I need to dig further.
You know what I think?
I think this guy has been getting closer and closer to losing his job (due to newspapers going under), growing more and more frustrated that things were getting beyond his control and finally just blew his cool. The debate he discusses, the debate over anonymous posting, is a very emotional debate that goes to our very basic rights as Americans, was having a direct effect on his ability to keep his job.
I think that frustration just reached the level that he snapped and forgot what he was doing–writing as a journalist.
Guess he doesn’t have to worry about that job anymore. I cannot see HOW he can manage to hang on to his after this…
He just put himself right smack dab in the middle of the controversy.
Holy cow…could that have been the idea all along?
Sorry…I kept digging.
Not liking what I found either. In an article about censoring/moderating reader comments,
Kurt states the following:
“That’s my point exactly. I do not believe that obligation is best served by ignoring such talk or letting it go unchallenged.”
He is referring to racist comments on his blog (and in general, all publications that allow reader comments). It appears that he has held this opinion, that action should be taken against posters, since at least April of this year.
Here is the article:
http://www.igreenbaum.com/2009/04/in-further-defense-of-uncomfortable-co...
My opinion has changed since my previous post. I think this guy is on a crusade that backfired on him. He took the first step in “challenging” what he thought was something that needed a challenge.
I eagerly await the enemy’s responding volley. It still bothers me…I can’t seem to shake the sneaking feeling this all some stunt to put anonymity on trial.
Why would his employer care that he was using dirty words? Who cares? When I was in high school I had a few teachers who cursed in class. Nobody gave a shit.
So, if I were sitting there as a principal or whoever, and I got an email from some prick journalist with a chip on his shoulder complaining about one of my guys cursing on his stupid blog, I would tell the prick journalist to go fuck his dead, decaying mother’s bones until his dick is raw.
P.S. Please don’t inform my employer about this post…
This video is quite incendiary. It should have a post of its own.
If Greenbaum is so agianst profanity, then why did he post this on his personal website in September of 09?
Title of posting:, Yes, bloggers, we can laugh at ourselves
September 17, 2009 by Kurt, Filed under: general, social media
http://www.igreenbaum.com/2009/09/yes-bloggers-we-can-laugh-at-ourselves/
It’s a video of two men, featuring and written by Adam Jadhav, and current colleague Joel Currier, said to be a former and a current SPD employee, immitating white rappers. Greenbaum says: “(note: some language isn’t for little ears).”
The video warns: “Before you get your shorts in a bunch, remember this is satire”
The language used includes:
The “MF” word – many
The “F” word – many
The “F” word for a gay man – once
The “S” word for feces – once or twice
The “S” word for fellation – once visually
I’m stunned. Speechless, really.
Greenbaum, SPD, Bob Rose, pot, kettle black?
You’re right, Jake. I just posted it.
http://carlosmiller.com/2009/11/21/is-kurt-greenbaum-laughing-at-himself/
This is important……If you say one and i say one who is wrong? Both? Or just me because you have the ‘power’? That sucks…….it also makes a pussy out of you!
Kurt. YOU at the PD have chuckled as you use (and print) the word “tea-baggers” to describe conservative activists voicing their opinions. You and all your sophomoric liberal chums at the PD know exactly what that word means yet you still print it. Why don’t you explain to some of your older readers (that maybe aren’t as hip as the majority of your dwindling readers) in graphic detail exactly what a tea-bagger is.
And many others along those lines.
I’d just like to point out to Greenbaum that clitoral stimulation is still considered so novel and shocking that there are UN-member nations where it is officially illegal for a woman’s sex partner to go downstairs. Anti-bilingualism is bad enough; we don’t need anti-cunnilingualism on top of that. And in this era of extreme dining, you can’t even be sure this person wasn’t talking about a meal at an unlicensed Chinese restaurant.
So quit your showboating, you big dick.
For what it’s worth, they’re saying “donut bag” instead of any homophobic slang.
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