Pixiq

The quality of the video is so bad, it is virtually impossible to make out anything other than the audio.

Without commenting on the “beating” part, it is obvious, however that the officer that arrested Nigro had no business coming into Nigro’s yard (even if he did have an open container, the open container laws in NY aren’t strict enough to warrant a leo coming into anyone’s yard much less making an arrest over it)

Damn, Nigro!

Seems quite the rash of officers storming people in their own yards and issuing unlawful orders and questionable arrests last few posts.

Or maybe we’re just starting to see a critical mass of videos of what just normally happens.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

In Texas, the cop could have been shot for trespassing.

“In Texas, the cop could have been shot for trespassing.”

Uhh no.

Texas law allows you to use deadly force to protect your property or yourself if you feel that either is threatened. If a cop storms onto your property at night without identifying himself and you shoot him, your actions are easily defensible. There are also exemptions even if you know it is a police officer:

§9.31. Self defense.

(a) Except as provided in Subsection (b), a person is justified in using force against another when and to the degree he reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful force.

(b) The use of force against another is not justified:

(1) in the response to verbal provocation alone;

(2) to resist an arrest or search that the actor knows is being made by a peace officer, or by a person acting in a peace officer’s presence and at his direction, even though the arrest or search is unlawful, unless the resistance is justified under Subsection (c);
…

(c) The use of force to resist an arrest or search is justified:

(1) if, before the actor offers any resistance, the peace officer (or person acting at his direction) uses or attempts to use greater force than necessary to make the arrest or search; and

(2) when and to the degree the actor reasonably believes the force is immediately necessary to protect himself against the peace officer’s (or other person’s) use or attempted use of greater force than necessary.
…

§9.32. Deadly force in defense of person.

(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:

(1) if he would be justified in using force against the other under Section 9.31;

(2) if a reasonable person in the actor’s situation would not have retreated; and

(3) when and to the degree he reasonably believes the deadly force is immediately necessary:

(A) to protect himself against the other’s use or attempted use of unlawful deadly force; or

(B) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of aggravated kidnapping, murder, sexual assault, aggravated sexual assault, robbery, or aggravated robbery.

(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor.

yeah i am going to have to agree here with bob. In unincorporated whittier, for instance, police aren’t even allowed to walk on your property without a warrant, they are restricted to wherever the public is allowed to go (without trespass) – so if a cop is snooping around in your backyard you can call them out and then shoot if they don’t present a warrant. it’s all pretty straight forward.

For instance, my neighbor was a cop. one night he got drunk and invited his ex wife over. then he took a shotgun and sat in the vestibule. and when she unlocked the deadbolt with her key and came in the house he blasted her the fuck away. When the cops came to arrest him, he was naked. He said “ooooooh god” and other things. there were cops using my parent’s car as cover for shooting positions. 2 days later, he was back at home. Drinking. For 8 months he sat there drinking until he died from it. No charges were ever pressed. no one gave him any shit. Cause he was a police!

Hooray!

Jesus!

There are actually previsions in the law that say you can’t invite someone over and then use force.

Bob, thank you for schooling Johnny. However Johnny feel free, no encouraged, to test your assumptions in Texas. I’m sure you’ll be no worse for the wear.

Bob, above, actually thinks that statute would work in front of a DA and a judge and jury. Naive dumbass.
ClintJCL recently posted..links for 2010-08-30

If the report is true (and that is a big if) I don’t have much sympathy “Luis M. Lluberes, 21, of 22 Detroit Ave., who was intoxicated, allegedly continued to fight with officers and pushed Officer Brandon Cipperly, took a swing at him and attempted to grab an officer’s night stick, according to the report and Police Chief John Tedesco.” When you grab for cops night sticks they are going to introduce you to them in a very unpleasant manner. Again, I don’t know if the report is true, cops fabricate stuff all the time in police reports.
Arresting Nigro was clearly unjustified, he was not even close to the incident and not doing anything wrong. It will be interesting to see what the judge finds in his case.

As an alum of RPI, and knowing the tension that exists between the City and campus community, I can’t say that I am surprised. I offer no opinion on the brutality. The video is of poor quality.

However, the videographer (no matter how poor), was well within his rights. When individuals are not interfering with the arrest (or are on their own property) but only documenting it, this becomes an issue of curtailment of rights by officers, and the common charge of Disorderly Conduct amounts to Videotaping Police When They Might Be Doing Something Wrong. (And on a college campus, an Open Container allegation is just as easy for an officer to lodge baselessly)
Marcus Griep recently posted..Powering a Canon EOS from an External Power Source

Bob, FTW!

There is nowhere in the United States that you can legally shoot somebody for trespassing. To even bring it up says a lot about you.

Though all would do well to keep in mind that it doesn’t matter if it’s legal or not to shoot someone for trespassing if the shooter believes it – at least not to the trespasser, who’s just as shot/crippled/dead either way.

I suggest that the easiest, most practical solution is to just not illegally charge up at people and trespass in the first place.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

Bob, genewich, and other delusional people,

There is no way a person would get off if they shot a cop that came into their yard. It doesn’t matter if that person had a warrant or not. If the homeowner knew that person as an officer, they would face capital murder charges. If they didn’t know it was a cop, they would face murder charges. Simple as that.

Even if you hear what you think is a prowler around your house, you can’t just go firing rounds at the noise. That is criminally negligent.

You are fooling yourself if you are serious about what you wrote. Plus, Texas is pretty pro-police. The shooter would be pretty much get the needle for killing a cop.

It’s not the trespassing that gives you a pass to kill them in Texas. It is the perceived threat to you or your property (you think they are going to rob you and kill you) . There are tons of cases of repo men being killed legally because the owner thought he was being robbed.

@ClintJCL
Sorry for thinking that police and judges were not above the law. My bad. But you may want to look at the case law in Texas before you shoot off your mouth.

BTW I’m not saying it is right for someone to kill a cop just because they come on their property. My point was that cops would think twice before doing something similar to what happened in this video if every state was like Texas.

I guess it must be perfectly legal in TX for a guy who overdoses on herion to shoot the paramedic who shows up to take him to the hospital,

I guess it must be perfectly legal in TX for a guy who overdoses on herion to shoot the paramedic who shows up to take him to the hospital

(a) A person is justified in using deadly force against another:
(2) if a reasonable person in the actor’s situation would not have retreated; and
(B) to prevent the other’s imminent commission of …robbery, or aggravated robbery.
(b) The requirement imposed by Subsection (a)(2) does not apply to an actor who uses force against a person who is at the time of the use of force committing an offense of unlawful entry in the habitation of the actor.

Unidentified cop trespassing on your property and you think it is a robber and see that he has a weapon == justified to use deadly force against him.

I’m not saying this is common or right, but it does happen. I’m sure in Texas, the police know these laws better than anyone and identify themselves before entering other people’s property. Google “Texas Repo Shooting”. There are lots of incidents.

A repo man hitching up a car in the middle of the night is a little bit different than a uniformed police officer walking into your yard and towards you.

I know that in TX you can use deadly force at night to prevent the consequences of theft but even then some folks get indicted depending on the circumstances.

Can we forget this nonsense about shooting cops and get back to the story? I would like to know how you can be arrested for having an open container in your yard, much less shooting video from your yard. I can’t watch the video right now, but I’ll take everyone’s word that it doesn’t show much. Did they draw him off the property and then arrest him for an open container?

Have you noticed? Once again “Johnny Law” skirts around the main subject of whether or not the cops were wrong for..

(1. Taking turns hitting a person three times in the back of the head and also bare-fisted punching him in the face as people were yelling at them to stop.. let alone commenting on the cop who..

2. Arrested Nicholas Nigro with disorderly conduct and having an open container even though Nigro was not interfering nor yelling or doing anything other than describing the incident that had just taken place between the officer and the student while Nigro was standing in his own yard.)

..by changing the subject.. and thus the resulting comments, to: “Shooting Cops in Texas for trespassing.”

Way to go “JL”. Once again you show your true colors.

Rail Car Fan

It’s difficult to say what’s going on so I’ll make a few comments on what I can.

1. The arrest is happening across the street from the student’s house. (I’d say he’s about 40 feet away from the action at this point)

2. The student is filming from the threshold of his front door it seems.

3. At around 1:12 the student walks up to what seems to be the sidewalk, he’s still across the street from where the arrest.(I’d say he’s about 25 feet away from the action now)

4. A little before he starts walking, the cop is yelling, “stop stop” it seems it’s directed to someone else though because the student was still at his threshold of his front door at this point.

5. @1:24 the cop starts approaching with two others behind him and is saying something about “open container” “get in your car”(not sure about this) and “goodbye goodbye” “get in your house”. He’s not giving any reason why the filmer should get in their house either.

Seems to me an open and shut case of illegal arrest. The open container charge at face value seems irrelevant and an obvious “cop trick” as the student is still on his property and I doubt he was filming while having a beer in his hand. The disorderly conduct is ridiculous as the student is not shouting and is just talking among friends about what is happening, far away from the arrest.

Rail Car Fan,

I don’t know about you but I can’t make much out about the video. It doesn’t show anything and we have no idea about the struggle with the officers. You go ahead and make conclusions if you want, it doesn’t mean you know what you are talking about.

“Taking turns hitting a person three times in the back of the head and also bare-fisted punching him in the face as people were yelling at them to stop”

Who cares if people were yelling at them to stop? If you are quoting from that article, go ahead and quote the part that explains the actions of the officers:

“Most of those involved dispersed when ordered, according to the report, but Luis M. Lluberes, 21, of 22 Detroit Ave., who was intoxicated, allegedly continued to fight with officers and pushed Officer Brandon Cipperly, took a swing at him and attempted to grab an officer’s night stick, according to the report and Police Chief John Tedesco.

”I deemed it appropriate self defense,” Tedesco said. ”Just because you wear a badge does not mean you are a punching bag.””

As for the open container arrest, if he was out on the sidewalk with an open container and there is a law against it, then that is a legal arrest. The officer told him to leave and the guy refused. It looks like the officer decided to resolve it by arresting him for the open container then.

Is it the crime of the century? No. Would it be legal? Yes.

I think the cops need to meet the Drop Squad.

I just took a look at NYS’s open container law. Not only is it not an arrestable offense, but it seems to apply only when one is in a motor vehicle.

http://www.nysgtsc.state.ny.us/alco-vt.htm

http://forums.officer.com/forums/showthread.php?88928-NY-s-Open-Containe...

Perhaps the officers in the Troy PD need a refresher course in criminal law?

There could be a city ordinance against it. Cities can make their own regulations on stuff like that.

I’ve continued combing through NYS penal law, and I can find NOTHING about possessing an open container being an arrestable offense by itself either in a vehicle or anywhere else, but it still appears to be at least a violation, unless it’s in a paper bag. In other words, the officer still seems to have overstepped his authority.

If you want to kill yourself but you have no gut to do so, call SJPD:

http://forums.siliconvalley.com/topic/san-jose-police-man-shot-by-office...

Shawn,,

C-I-T-Y O-R-D-I-N-A-N-C-E

Of course state penal law would not have a reference to a specific city’s ordinances in it. Until we know what the actual law is that they were arrested for, it’s all idle speculation.

A city ord would not be located in the state penal code.

The arrest happened because all photographers are terrorists.

Here’s one getting busted staking out his local marina:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TlhTuKGMqgc
Danfour recently posted..USSA Col booted over Afghanistan report

Yes, the city has an ordinance against alcoholic consumption on public sidewalks, but he says he didn’t. What if he didn’t?
Oh wait, I’m sorry, Johnny doesn’t like playing the what if game…oh wait…he does…but not with us…only if he’s asking the questions…oh well.

I’m an RPI grad as well, and lived literally in the house next door to where this all went down, so this is super crazy to me.

One thing to consider is that there’s an active electronic media/film major at RPI – one wonders if this wasn’t an attempt to obtain footage from a project, in addition to documenting police abuse.

We used to film pubic safety and Troy PD fairly regularly, and blame our shenanigans on Sig Ep next door to get them in trouble and keep the heat off ourselves. Feeling a little guilty for that right now.

Red Death was good times!
Kathy recently posted..Glutard

Johnny, I’m not sure how it works in your state, but I’m pretty sure that arrestable offenses are governed by state law in NY, and local ordinances are punishable only as violations. At the most, the guy should’ve gotten a ticket.

JL: I may have been slightly delirious when i wrote that post about whittier. What i meant to say was basically what bob is talking about, if you are in fear for your life (Whittier is surrounded by gang heavy areas and there are spillovers into certain parts) because someone with a gun is milling around in your back yard. Which the police aren’t allowed to do without a warrant – i don’t even think the sheriffs execute no-knock warrants in whittier – they’re more likely to lure you out with tales of lost dogs or hooking your car up to a tow-truck to get you to come out of your house… they’re VERY sneaky and VERY good at their jobs! I give them kudos.

Anyhow if someone is sneaking around in your backyard and appears to have a weapon, and you’ve not been informed that they are police, there’s really nothing to stop you from shooting them if they appear to want to gain illegal entry into your house. If they’re dead, they tell no tales, and dead people also cannot sue. I’m not saying it’s right, or whatever, just that the law tends to side on property rights of the owner, since the police can’t be there in time to protect the property/owner in most cases anyhow.

I don’t know why i brought up the cop shooting his estranged wife, i’ve been on really weird combinations of medicine the past week for an upper respiratory infection, and stuff that makes sense in the cloud doesn’t make sense later.

Ho hum. sorry, and carry on!

“Yes, the city has an ordinance against alcoholic consumption on public sidewalks, but he says he didn’t. What if he didn’t?”

What? Somebody that got arrested says they didn’t do it? Well hell, we should just drop charges! Umm that would be why we have a court system with judges and juries and all that stuff. He says he didn’t do it? Then pled not guilty.

“Johnny, I’m not sure how it works in your state, but I’m pretty sure that arrestable offenses are governed by state law in NY, and local ordinances are punishable only as violations. At the most, the guy should’ve gotten a ticket.”

Hmm I admit I am not sure about that. In my state, local ordinances are the same level offense as a traffic violation but police are allowed to make arrests for them or they can issue citations.

I guess that cop never heard of camera guns. SOP should have been suppressing fire followed by tactical assault culminating in the killing of all dogs and burning this village.

I need to make a slight correction. It seems that certain violations CAN result in arrest, including the one that this guy supposedly committed. After much searching, I found Troy’s city code in an online database. If he stepped onto the sidewalk, he violated Part II, Chapter 116, Section 1 of the city code, which states:

“Possession of open containers in public places or vehicles.

[Added 7-7-1983; amended 8-7-1997]
A. No person shall consume liquor, beer, wine or other alcoholic beverage while such person is on any public highway, public street, public sidewalk, public parking area or in any vehicle or public place, excepting those premises duly licensed for sale and consumption of alcoholic beverages on the premises.

B. An open bottle or open container containing liquor, beer, wine or other alcoholic beverage in the possession of any person or in any vehicle shall create a rebuttable presumption that the same is being consumed by such person or by all the occupants of such vehicle and in violation hereof.

C. The penalty for first violation of this section, upon conviction thereof, shall be a fine of not more than $100 or imprisonment of not more than 10 days, or both. The penalty for subsequent violations of this section, upon conviction thereof, shall be a fine of not more than $250 or imprisonment of not more than 15 days, or both, for each such violation.”

Did what this guy did warrant an arrest? Probably not, but again, if he stepped onto the sidewalk, the officer was operating within the boundaries of the law when he arrested him. However, if he did not step onto the sidewalk, then the officer was out of line.

Presuming they guy actually had an open container… the police report is testimony, not evidence, after all.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

I am sorry this student was arrested on his own property. A lot of these “powers” are expanded within city limits. They can come on your property due to municipal powers to enforce various ordinances. In Albuquerque for example, the city has duplicated and added to the state’s criminal code (misdemeanors only). The city attorney prosecutes people for these offenses and there is little plea bargaining nor charges being dropped. They are also known to suppress evidence, such as traffic camera video. I know one city resident who was forced to remove outdoor security cameras because the neighbor complained. They are quite crafty at using building codes, health codes, zoning, and anything else they can to bust people on unrelated “offenses”. In the camera case the man hadn’t obtained an electrical permit to put the video camera up. So in cases inside city limits we must be careful to also check municipal laws in addition to state law. In some cases the state trumps them but often the city can add additional restrictions to people’s conduct.

Out here in the unincorporated county, the district attorney must prosecute misdemeanors and generally if you haven’t done anything serious they often drop the charges before it even gets to court. They simply don’t have the staff and budget to pursue such cases in court. The sheriff has a similar view as well. In addition, the sheriff isn’t going to waste time arresting someone who will just have their charges dropped.

This is the primary reason I live here, we have more personal freedom than city residents do. I often get in arguments with coworkers about this. They of course never gave freedom a thought when they bought their home. I also am devoid of CC&R’s and the dreaded neighborhood association.

And they wonder why thy are distrusted and hated.

Both governments and cops.

Albuquerque sounds like quite the shithole.

I’m going to make an extreme statement..

When cops exceed their legal authority in ways and such extremes as we have seen repeated here over and over I would argue that they are no longer cops but armed civilians in costumes. And should be treated as such.

My parents live in the country, just barely, their property is bordered on two sides by the city, but they are definitely in the country. One day we were target shooting and a city cop rolled up our very long driveway and told us we couldn’t do what we were doing. He was told he was wrong, he was outside his jurisdiction, and ORDERED to leave the property, if he had reached for his weapon he woud have been shot in self defense. He lacked the authority to even be there. Luckily nothing came of it, but both he and the city would have lost.

In another case, target shooting again, 2 cops appeared at the fence they were still on the city side. I informed them that where I was standing is the county and that I would continue, I was polite but was not going to discuss it any further, if they wanted to, send a county sheriff. They left shortly thereafter.

this is why some cops are bad. http://www.nydailynews.com/ny_local/2010/08/31/2010-08-31_cop_identified...