Pixiq

Cha-ching!

A person claiming to take this video posted this on another site about what he filmed

“This is what I know, The two guys who are deaf were in the Clothing store XXI and apparently they were shopping, Staff must have seen them do something to suspect them of stealing, but that doesn’t have any support or facts. Before I started filming. The Big Black dude in Jeans who mighta been a store detective jumps and tackles the large hispanic deaf guy. from there I remembered my new phone and turned on the camera,

There was who looked to be the manager of XXI that said to turn off the camera because they didn’t want to get exposed for harassing and dealing with a situation that turned sour.

From there, you get to see the turn of events and then in the aftermath, the sorting out of exactly what happen. From what I saw that you guys can’t, the deaf guy in the white shirt was apparently assuring the store with receipts for what he was carrying.

And the store it was taken at.

XXI
6801 Hollywood Blvd
#1C-134
Los Angeles, CA 90028
Neighborhood: Hollywood
(323) 462-8500″

Aaaaaaand your time in retail is done there, big guys.

What a stupid thing to chase someone down and tackle them for, in any case.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

I can hear perfectly well and don’t stop when I make an alarm go off. I have no obligation to do so.

Wow. One good lawyer and they are going to be renaming that store “Forever Two Deaf Guys.”

Even if the two guys had been shoplifting, the security guards, aka private citizens, went way beyond the necessary force to detain the supposed crooks for the police.

Kudos to the photographer. Yet, I am bothered by the lack of people jumping in to help the guy on the ground who was clearly being mistreated.

And if I had been that guy on the ground, I would have given that chokehold artist something to think about the second I got my hands free.

As a former security director for a casino, my primary responsibility to the company was to mitigate their liability (along with safety and physical security). Part of that was putting every security officer through a strict training program so they knew what their limits were in accordance with civil and criminal law.

A smart security officer will not have to face criminal charges for assault, unlawful arrest and whatever else the prosecutor decides to throw at these buffoons in the video. Subsequently, a smart officer will protect his company from civil liability for damages, something Forever 21 is going to be intimately familiar with I presume.
Peter Greene recently posted..Lake Oswego Chefs Grow and Gather Dinnerjpg by Peter Greene

A lawsuit? How about a criminal complaint for, at the very least, battery? Tackled and choked by store security while not shoplifting — the guard should go to jail.

If I were tackled and choked by some ignorant security guard, you bet your ass my thumb would have been through his eye and that store wouldn’t be open after the lawsuit.

This kind of assault is absolutely ridiculous. Good job to the cameraman.

What is the law on this locally/federally?

In Norway, anyone can make a citizens arrest if they catch someone red handed. In other words, if I am a store detective and see you put something in your pocket, and then walk out, I can place you under citizens arrest and hold you back until the police arrive.

Obviously, under the same laws, you can’t in any way restrict anyone from leaving if you didn’t see them steal anything.

This means that any security guard who ever tries to hold me back will be breaking the law, and that I can lawfully defend myself. Those who read between the lines can probably deduse that I don’t steal. Or at least, I haven’t done since I shoplifted once at the tender age of 10 (a candy bar, for those interested).

I presume security guards and store detectives can rely on probable cause (the store alarm going off would seem to be that), but I suppose a person who has not shoplifted still has no obligation to do anything?

I’d be very pleased if someone with legal knowledge could give an explenation.

Peter, I agree with you. I would have hoped that someone one the sidewalk would have stepped in. It was painful to watch the video and not be able to do anything. I wonder what the security guard would have thought if someone had put him in a chokehold while he was busy applying his.

@A Norwegian Chap
In the US laws vary by state on this issue. I am not a lawyer but my understanding is that generally you are correct if you catch someone stealing you can make a “citizen’s arrest”. However the standard is very high – you better be 100% sure of what you have seen – if you are wrong you and your company can and will be sued. There is virtually no room for error.

Police officers on the other hand have some immunity if they have reasonable grounds for the arrest – private citizens and security guards do not

In this case the security guards were wrong – the “suspects” were completely innocent. This will be settled for $$$$$…

@Brandon

Its like you read my mind… I wish I could have leapt through my screen and started choking that idiot myself. What a bunch of cowards, both the guards and the onlookers.

This is one of the most troubling videos that I’ve seen of late. Like other readers here have already observed, as I watched the video I felt terribly frustrated that all I could do was watch.

It was very clear that these gentlemen were disabled. It was equally clear that persons that were not sworn officers were battering them. At what point exactly, would most bystanders feel compelled to intervene. I hope that had I been there I would have had the decency to help disabled folks who were being victimized by criminals.

The video is sad on so many levels. At least someone was able to record the event so that these fellows will be handsomely compensated, as they well deserve.

Watching the video, I just wanted to run up and kick that security guard in the face who had that guy in a chokehold.

He was in such a perfect position to be kicked in the face.

I guarantee he would have let go of that man after that.

I nearly yelled at my screen! Well, I certainly cussed at it.

I wanted to slap that manager and make him look at what his employee was doing. He was all busy with trying to block the other victim. To what extent, or reason?

“Nya Nya, you can’t pass me!”. One of the favorite games my two daughters play.

That choke reminded me of the WWF/MMA hangman’s choke that can be done standing, or prone like shown in the video. A submission hold used to threatening to strangle/break bones.

Appalling.

Anyone think an empowered ethnic minority might have a role in this? The laws do not apply to them any more. Any Obamanite is free to do what he pleases whether it be a Black Panther or a Security Guard. I see a manager and some security guards joining the unemployed ranks.

Of course, Jay, you’re right. This would never have happened under the Bush Administration.

Jay, you might want to look at the thousands of videos of abusive authority perpetrated by PEOPLE. All races, all classes, both genders, blondes, brunettes, one eye, a lisp or even someone who’s favorite actor is Tom Cruise beat up other people. Yeah, never had a black cop be a dick until Obama. Nope, just nice and polite hulking black cops who were so disciplined they never squeezed a throat, smashed a face with a baton because they weren’t a part of the black brotherhood yet. But now, even huge hulking security guards are going crazy. (sarcasm)

And Obamanite? Some made up group of people are free to do what they please?

MR Allen, what is the difference between Me, you and the ethnic minorities in this country to those in power? NONE
to them we are all just peasents . Wake up. There is one minority, the one percent that owns 40 percent of everything. They count on idiots like you to keep the other 99 percent in line and hating each other. They always have counted on Idiots like you, to spew Pew.

@ A Norwegian Chap

In the US, most states have a version of the “shopkeeper’s privilege.” It allows store employees who have a reasonable suspicion of theft to detain the person using reasonable force to take back merchandise or wait for the police.

Here, the security guards have a reasonable suspicion if the alarm goes off when you walk out the door. However, a choke hold is NOT reasonable force. Reasonable force is usually read to be: grappling, wrestling, pushing. The friend who got pushed aside doesn’t have a suit (he was merely pushed), but the man in the chokehold sure as hell does.

Here is a legal question. Lets say they had shoplifted but you intervened and gave that security guard a well deserved kick to the head. What are the ramifications for the kick?

Can you claim self defense of others? Does it vary state to state?

John,

That guy was turning purple. Chokeholds have proven to be deadly. The guy was not being violent.

Shoplifter or not, there is no justification to strangle the guy.

@Jay Allen

Please, let’s leave the right/left partisanship out of this. There’s really no place or call for it.

Authoritarians are authoritarians, no matter their political leanings.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

Am I required to submit to a search of my person when that person in not a police officer. When I have not taken anything and when I have not set off any alarms. I am talking about the Wall mart receipt check as you walk out the door.

@Rich

It is a… frequent… topic on The Consumerist.

http://consumerist.com/cgi-bin/mt/mt-search.cgi?blog_id=1&tag=receipt%20...

Generally, hell no you don’t.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

I felt like shit for not being able to do anything while watching this video. The first thing I would have done is informed the security guard that if he did not stop assaulting a citizen then I would have to detain and arrest him until the police arrived. If he did not comply then I would jump on his back and put my arm under his left arm and around his neck and hold him until he stopped fighting or the police got there.

heads should roll for this on at Forever XXI, we shall see.

I had a similar incident happen to me a long time ago. The 1st gen exit scanners could be set off by certain calculators of the day without entry into the store. When mine did that and I refused to stop for the guard it got interesting. He insisted he could detain and search me and I said I would not comply. It finally ended up being a physical contest which he lost.

If the store’s policy for their loss prevention to get physical with potential shop lifters, why not at least arm them with handcuffs and pepper spray? I mean if you’re gonna be pulling wrestling moves on someone, just go all out and give ‘em some equipment.

Too bad nobody helped out the deaf guy, I feel so bad for them. People are so apathetic these days and the diffusion of responsibility is just disgusting.

Hopefully these security guards will be in jail for 21 years to forever!

Sounds like Best Buy. They use similar tactics and that is why I won’t shop there anymore. Treating customers like this is slitting your own throat. Maybe they think sheep (american citizens) will take it since they continue to fly with naked body scanners (that end up on the internet) and anal probes of “selectees”. Half the retail thefts go out the back door anyhow. How about doing something about that?

IF ANYBODY SHOPS AT A FOREVER 21 AGAIN AFTER THIS CRAP, THEY SHOULD BE PUT IN A CHOKE HOLD. THESE GUYS WILL NOT BE ARRESTED AND THE GUYS PROBABLY WILL GET VERY LITTLE IN A SUIT. BOYCOT THESE M-FERS AND IT WILL COST THEM 10S OF THOUSANDS PER DAY.

This really upset me so bad and made me so angry that they both were very cooperative and very clear with the communication gestures, come on! maybe they will put lights on alarms for deaf but it still wouldnt do any good for blind & deaf ?!! i am praying for those guys be alright.

Thanks, Carlos, for following up on the guy. He has at least two charges against him. Bail is $50,000 on one charge and $5,000 on the other, but like you, I could not find out what the charges are????? Did he shoplift or not? That will matter in any civil case he may try to log.

Bet its disorderly conduct and resisting.

@Iroc, neither of those are felony charges. I suppose we will have to wait and see.

I’m wondering if he may have been charged with assaulting an officer during the altercation?

Keep us posted Carlos.

Here is Forever 21′s Human Resource/warehouse:
Forever 21, Inc.
2001 S. Alameda Street
Los Angeles, CA 90058
write them a letter or go there in person and give them hell.

What I find most disturbing is that nobody — aside from what appeared to be his companion and somebody else wearing the orange vest — appeared to make any effort to step up and take action. Nobody made any effort whatsoever to stop the two large men who were making what appeared to be a coordinated effort to kill someone publicly. The man was clearly begging for air — for his life — yet everybody stood there watching and doing nothing, wondering whether they should get involved. Everyone in the gallery should be ashamed of themselves for being absolute cowards and standing idly by.

I find that kind of inaction deeply disturbing.

Sure, record what’s going on, but for the sake of civility, don’t hide behind that lens. Step up and take action. Life isn’t a movie.

Too many sheep out there.

jay allen for president!

One other thing that hasn’t been discussed here..is the law in terms of Deaf rights!!! Cops are trained to restrain Deaf people in the front…so they can sign. Restraining their hands is ILLEGAL and equivalent to gagging a hearing persons mouth! There is a reason for this law. And these people are in serious T.R.O.U.B.L.E!! THAT!

there are a few sociological and psychological reasons that people don’t rush to the aid of others. one of them is called the transparency effect. We think everyone can see what we’re thinking, and they can’t. so everyone looks calm and collected (the bystanders) so everyone else thinks the situation is under control.

Being gung ho about this sort of thing is a good way to get shot, tased, or clubbed in the head, and people know that.

How about if some of us flood the Forever 21 web site or email addresses with complaints?

Like add your feelings in this page:

http://www.forever21.com/customerservice/customerservice.asp?content=con...

I have refused to show my receipt at walmart before. It was awesome. They have no right….which is why I usually don’t shop there.
mepsipax recently posted..I ride a bike

Jay Allen has a seemingly recurring point, but should not paint all Obama supporters with the same brush. The liberal administration does seem to have a disdain for paying taxes and obeying the same laws that apply to the rest of us. We must remember that the party elite are above the laws that they pass. This poor soul just happened to be in the wrong place at the wrong time: Guilty of “Shopping while Deaf.”

@genewitch

Obedience of authority figures coupled with diffusion of responsibility and you get a crowd of people who watch an unethical scene unfold in front of them.

Update:

http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/story?section=news/local/los_angeles&id=7608062

” Police said one of the men apprehended by the security guards, Alejandro Rea, was charged with robbery, but did not say what he stole. He had a prior record but officials also did not say what for.

Rea posted bail believed to be $50,000 and was released Monday. “

Forever 21 is a POS Company, and anyone who shops there should be ashamed of themselves [ http://www.madeinla.com/ ]
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Carlos

As I said in my post the security guard deserved a kick in the head. I was just curious as to what the potential legal issues were by getting involved and hitting the security guard.

I don’t believe a chokehold should be allowed by cops let alone security guards.

Amazing. I feel sorry for the two guys, they simply happened to be at the wrong place at the wrong time. The security guards may have a reasonable suspicion since the alarm went off but going for a chokehold is too much. They would be better off at the WWF or at the UFC. I smell a lawsuit coming. One thing that’s disturbing about the incident is the fact that people who witnessed the ‘assault’ simply stood there watching!

One good lawyer and they are going to be renaming that store “Forever Two Deaf Guys.”

Even if the two guys had been shoplifting, the security guards, aka private citizens, went way beyond the necessary force to detain the supposed crooks for the police.

Kudos to the photographer. Yet, I am bothered by the lack of people jumping in to help the guy on the ground who was clearly being mistreated.

And if I had been that guy on the ground, I would have given that chokehold artist something to think about the second I got my hands free.
Miami Condo Shop recently posted..Infinity at Brickell Video Tour

I seen this video and took everything I purchased back to forever 21 ! I just cant support these pigs. They need stopped and I wont add any funds to their legal funds. They cant even give me anything for free to come shop there again.