Pixiq

Looks good to me. Guy resisted.

Such brave officers, subduing a jaywalker.

Bravo. Applause. I feel safer.

But what we don’t know is whether or not he started resisting BECAUSE they were piling on him.

And seriously? Running in and throwing a gut punch on a teen surrounded by 4 other thugs is really justifiable? So long as someone is resisting in any way, they deserve whatever beating they get. That’s what I’m getting from you here.

You’re a good minion of the state, keep it up.

Apparently not throwing yourself to the ground in abject fear and panic at the mere whisper of a law enforcement officer, regardless of the situation, is “resisting” these days.
Michaelk42 recently posted..Unsurprisingly- Pogan gets no real punishment

@Difster

Remember that cops may choose to lie. As we all know, the only difference between them and us is that their testimony is taken at face value in the courtroom.

Whether it’s truth or lie.

So don’t feed the troll. He’s here to uphold the fiction that whatever the LEO claims happened is the sworn truth. Even (especially) when there is no other supporting evidence. Their testimony is incontrovertible evidence.

Maybe you took a college philosophy or logic course, or you’re familiar with chained logic sequences and queries, such as: “All Blorgs lie. Every LEO is a Blorg. Do LEOs lie?”

Of course they do. Despite the fallibility of human beings, you still have the challenge to prove the LEO didn’t lie, because their testimony is sanctioned truth, unless there’s audio/video evidence proving otherwise (which, of course, is debatable per LEOs.)

Forget about eyewitness testimony, we know that their statements aren’t worth anything like the value of a LEO’s testimony. Talking orders of magnitude here.

And as @Johnny Law indicates, even evidence that is otherwise exculpatory can be questioned, regardless. A cop beats the shit out of a suspect? Of course it was necessary! Are you a fucking dumbshit?!

“Christ almighty, the jaywalker was “resisting!” He wouldn’t take the friggin’ ticket we wanted to write him! Had to break his face so he’d accept it! Sheee-it!”

Really, sometimes it’s the truth versus the LEO’s job. That’s what it comes down to.

Things like this won’t end until we get enough “live and let live” cops on the force. These are the cops who would rather be measuring the distance from the kids decapitated body to his severed head in a fatality crash investigation than deal with enforcing jaywalking laws.

So what if the kid was jaywalking, and might have caused a crash. Any driver with a brain would have just plowed right into him, suffering almost no chance of injury. Only those idiot drivers who would swerve to avoid the collision may cause a worse situation, like swerving and causing a head-on collision.

It is time for cops to let stupidity hurt. Cops should be there to clean-up the mess, otherwise they will find themselves in situations such as this. This kid’s mom admitted her son has logic issues, so if she doesn’t care about his safety, why should that fall upon the government?

Of course nothing will change, because all the good, upstanding people who should be cops have flat out refused to even think about a career. So we now have too many power trippers, who want to turn every minuscule law violation into a felony case because someone dared to break some petty rule levied upon them by government.

Of course I find it hilarious that folks want to continue to bash just the cops, when it is really the government that most of them voted for that is the cause of these issues. Stop letting your elected “leaders” pass all these petty, feel good laws and the police won’t have a leg to stand on. Yea, some of them will still make up laws (ie: Photography is illegal), but at least it will make the lawsuits that much easier to win.

“Video shows Seattle police beating mentally disabled teen for jaywalking.”

It does no such thing.

This is what happens when the citizens are merely sources of revenue. Submit slaves:

Seattle’s Blue Gang Extortion Racket
http://theinternationallibertarian.blogspot.com/2010/06/seattles-blue-ga...
Darren recently posted..Liberty on Tour in Philadelphia- 8-14-2010

It’s time that the ADA was extended to apply to the police departments of this country. Cops should be required to take mental disabilities into account when dealing with people. Failure to do so should result in heavy federal fines (of a size large enough to bankrupt a department).

They should have given him a ticket, then given him another ticket, They could have avoided all of this. Issue a summons to appear in court. IF he didn’t show, then they should have arrested him. When it became a problem for the teens mother when she saw the ticket she would have taken steps to address her sons behavior.
Instead we GET violence for a NON violent traffic offense and a law suit. This video does not show anything in this teens favor in my opinion, once a jury see it unless its combined with the witness testimony.
They will get a settlement before it e=goes to trial probably and it could have been avoided if they had peacefully handed the child a ticket or followed him home and talked to his mother.

Carlos,

Please join the public shaming of Valley Center Kansas City Administrator Joel Pile who had a citizen arrested for posting a sign in his yard critical of his job performance.

See.

http://www.theagitator.com/2010/08/19/joel-pile-is-a-petty-tyrant-and-an...

This may not be a photography issue but it’s definitely an attack on fundamental 1st amendment right.

Overkill as always….hope we stop letting this shit fly. Do they only put idiots on juries?
mepsipax recently posted..Flashback Friday

Angst provoking though it may be, the video is an incomplete observation at best, and tells nothing about what brought everyone to that point.

Regardless of the reasons why, it sounds like the gentleman may have resisted arrest (Cardinal Sin – Don’t do it. You WILL lose). And a couple of punches to the bread basket to loosen up someone actively resisting arrest – at least for me – is a helluva lot more desirable than a P24 upside the head, Pepper, and / or a Tazer.
Porcupine Picayune recently posted..Everything But The Girl – Missing TGIFF!

Was the video taken down?

Video’s not displaying for me, either. Talk about a lack of media coverage!
Wiregeek recently posted..Video shows Seattle police beating mentally disabled teen for jaywalking

Here is a reality check for you folks. If you resist arrest, the officer will force you to comply no matter what the charge is for. It doesn’t matter if it is a ticket for littering or a robbery. Once the decision is made to go take you to jail, you have to go. If you want to fight the charge, you have to fight it in court not on the street.

I’m sorry you folks think that police should just walk away when you don’t want to be arrested but that will never happen. Imagine if everyone decided if and when they would go to jail or receive a ticket.

Where was the excessive force in this case? The officers used to strikes to subdue him but you could hardly call it a beat down. Try putting someone in handcuffs that doesn’t want to go. It’s pretty hard (unless you are that jedi juvi detention officer from the previous posting).

Once again it’s proven to me that the people on this site have zero objectivity in regards to the police. It is just automatic condemnation.

Hard to say if it was warranted or not. I’ve worked with mentally disabled kids before, they can have problems listening to authority.

Wish the guy had began recording earlier. I’m still wondering why a simple jay walking violation turns into hauling someone away, that seems excessive in itself.

I just came across your site and find it fascinating. Can’t wait to see more.
GuessTheLighting.com
Guess the Lighting recently posted..copyright- Scott McDermottThis hyper-sharp- seemingly

@JL Dunno. My parents always taught me, “Never hit anyone. If they’re going to beat you to death, let them beat you to death, and we’ll take them to court afterwards and solve our problems with words.” It’s always served me well, so I don’t see why everyone shouldn’t have to follow it. It’s why I’d never resist an officer (heck, I’ve never even argued over a speeding ticket), and why I expect an officer to never use force.

@hazy This is my biggest problem. If he was mentally disabled, he might not have been able to process that he should do what the cops were telling him. It would be interesting to see the initial confrontation through his eyes, and see what assesment he had of the world when he resisted. Something we’ll never be able to know.

So, the police now “guide you to the ground.”

/Orwellian.

Johny jaywalking is not a reason to arrest someone to begin with.
Instead of wasting money and the courts time The officers time 5 officers in this case they could have issued a summons. They could have walked away from a jaywalker and avoided this whole situation. Then if this child had been in contempt of court then they make a arrest.
Their is no justification for arresting people for jaywalking and then turning that ridiculous abuse of power into a violent confrontation.

I hope this gets past your TJ hooker head of hair, and into your brain Johny, They didn’t have to arrest him to begin with. They could have talked to the child’s mother. That is what police in my town would have done. Police in my town have children of there own and they care enough to take the time to talk to parents. I live in a large town of more then 100,000 people.
Escalating a situation like this into violence is a example of police who don’t care about their neighbors.

I have to agree with JL here, you should not and cannot resist arrest even if that arrest is completely illegal & absurd. You’re not going to win a fight with a cop(s) on the street; they have too many toys (gun, taser, pepper-spray, nightstick, fists, feet, knees, choke-holds, etc) and backup officers that will come to a distress call itching to beat the hell out of the suspect. Your best bet is to physically comply, keep your mouth COMPLETELY shut except to ask for a lawyer, and as Sydney says, file a lawsuit. It might be hard to accept that a group of people can go about doing this kind of stuff with no immediate consequences but sometimes it takes a while for justice (against the officer) to be served.

It is exactly that kind of attitude – the submissive, pavlovian, do not resist – one that pushes society closer to a police state.

Most people are wise (or scared) enough not to resist but sometimes even that does not work as has been evidenced by recent videos.

What needs to change is the training that police receive and the overall “do not question our authority” attitude that most of them have. There is right and wrong and they know the difference. The term “above the law” didn’t come out of thin air.

Obviously it’s a dangerous job and they put their lives at risk but there are appropriate responses to dole out for say, an unruly jay walker versus a guy who beat the hell out of his wife etc. THis “one size fits all” policing is total bullshit.

In America you are NOT supposed to be subjected to beatings for civil disobedience or questioning your rights. To hell with your comfortably fascist beliefs.

As this website is helping to raise awareness about photography not being a crime so should we all raise awareness about the growing and welcome public intolerance for abuse by the police. We are watching you as much as you are watching us!

For those interested, here’s yet another story about an autistic kid in GA that was beaten and tazed for simply being autistic:

http://savannahnow.com/crime/2010-05-23/autistic-man-tazed-tybee-family-...
SJR recently posted..One Defiant Moment Away

Drunk cop kills and gets off free, I wonder how many people this filthy scum has beaten.

http://www.fox59.com/news/wxin-bisard-blood-draw-081910,0,6025764.story

It’s funny, because 90% of people here think that there are plenty of good cops, but 100% of people here know that Johnny Law is definitely not one of them.

Johnny Law does a great job of representing the moral, intellectual, and physical cowardice that make bad cops bad.

I love it when folks on here call me a coward, especially a guy who works with kids. Yes I quake in my jackboots at the thought of this job. I don’t know how I go out the door each day.

I’m sorry that the fact that police have to sometime put hands on people scares you. The real world is sometimes not a pretty place. You just gotta deal with it. It obviously makes you so uncomfortable that you lash out with personal insults. Hey, whatever helps you cope buddy. I can take it so feel free to heap it on.

Oh and that DUI officer should go to prison if he is guilty. However I don’t see what that has to do with the arrest of the person in this original posting.

Johnny Law thinks that’s okay for cops to violently arrest suspects who don’t resist, even to the point of those suspects requiring medical attention.

Johnny doesn’t care if this makes him a bad cop. Go ahead and tell him. He can take it.

@Johnny Law:

So many times Police say, in response to being caught on tape doing something that appears improper, “The Video Doesn’t show everything/the whole story., we don’t know what happened b4.”

I think that is true of this video.

You claim “FIRSTIES” by posting: “Looks good to me. Guy resisted.” But as in so many cases, this video doesn’t show the whole story. All we see is the guy resisting arrest as the police apply a whole lot of force to arrest a jaywalking suspect. We don’t know what precipitated this.

I would say using that amount of force should ordinarily be considered excessive for jay walking but again we don’t know what precipitated this and if it justified this level of force or not.

So I don’t see how you can reach the conclusion that this was fine and not problematic.

Last, don’t you ever see situations where police officers use force and/or behave in a manner that isn’t necessarily illegal or outside of policy but which just scream to you that the police are just being aggressive d i c k s? This video isn’t screaming that to me but it is saying it in a voice louder than a whisper.

It just seems from the little we know that an understanding police officer could have resolve dthis w/o having it escalate to this level.

LJM,

I’d like to ask you a couple of questions so I can get some insight into your thoughts. You have me at a disadvantage because you obviously have me all figured out.

Let me give you a hypothetical just so I can see where you stand.

I see someone crossing the road in front of traffic and causing cars to have to brake or swerve to avoid a collision. I go to that person and stop him. During the course my stop, I run his name and find out he has a warrant for his arrest for a minor charge (perhaps unpaid tickets).

Well there’s an arrest warrant so that means I have to take him jail. After all, a warrant is an order by a judge demanding that a peace officer bring that subject before the court.

So I tell the guy he is under arrest but he refused to cooperate. I put my hands on him but he jerks away. Now should I try to force him into cuffs? Walk away and say to myself that I will get him next time? Beg him to cooperate? Call for more officers and then beg him to cooperate? Go into the fetal position?

What should I do?

Now let’s say your balls drop and you think I should try to put him in cuffs but he starts struggling with me. Should I struggle back? Call for help? Let him go?

What techniques should be used? Hugs? Arm bars? Strikes to large muscle areas to numb them and make it easier to get his arms behind his back? What if that doesn’t work? Can I escalate to OC or the taser? Or should I just give up if I have to escalate to a higher level of force?

I am very curious to see what you think should be done in a case like this.

Glenn,

“Last, don’t you ever see situations where police officers use force and/or behave in a manner that isn’t necessarily illegal or outside of policy but which just scream to you that the police are just being aggressive d i c k s? ”

Yep I have seen that stuff. We call it being badge heavy or heavy handed. Just because you can do something doesn’t mean that you should. For example I can remember a video of a Baltimore cop getting up in the face of a couple of skateboarders and being completely out of line. Not illegal but very bad form.

I just don’t think it applies to this incident. As I have said before, once you start to arrest someone, the original charge doesn’t matter. They go in cuffs whether they like it or not. The subject is the one that decides to escalate things, not the police. You can even see the suspect kicking out at officers at a couple of points. Bad choice on his part, not the officers.

I just don’t know enough to agree. Normally jaywalking is a citation and you give the ticket and the person appears to court if they wish to contest. I don’t know what might have happened to escalate this. If the kid slapped at the officer or pushed him away maybe this is a proper escalation.

We don’t even know if this happened after the ticket was issued or before.

If the kid simply refused to accept the ticket and/or was waiting for the friend to return to help answer questions and the police got tired of waiting it seems improper to me.

Again, as police so often say, this video doesn’t really tell us enough to state with conviction that this was proper or not. You may argue that based on your experience it is far more likely that something outside this clip made this use of force justifiable and that may (or may not) be true. But this clip itself doesn’t establish either way.

Simply the fact that the kid was resisting at the time doesn’t make it excusable. I’m sure you know but most states make it illegal to resist any arrest, legal or illegal. however you do have a right to resist excessive force. The police rarely lose these cases but if the police initially applied an unjustified force and the kid resisted then all the police piled on and at that point the video camera turned on, what we are seeing is the unjustified use of excessive force.

You stupid f&!king cops had to beat the hell out of a man for J walking?????????????

What COWARDS!!! I hope the victims recover enough money to cut the pigs budget!

No wonder you cops get shot

Glenn,

I believe there was something in the new story about the kid having an arrest warrant. There is also mention that he refused to get out of the roadway. Both of which justify an arrest IMO.

“Simply the fact that the kid was resisting at the time doesn’t make it excusable.”

Exactly what part of the arrest was not excusable?

JL:

JL

re: Exactly what part of the arrest was not excusable?

My main point is that the video and accompanying info isn’t sufficient to let us know. I could easily construct a hypothetical scenario that fits the available evidence that would make the use of force illegal.

For example, the cop is writing a ticket for jaywalking and is merely going to issue a citation. The kid says “f’ing cops what a jack ass” in a voice only loud enough for the cop to hear. Cop gets pissed off and punches kid in the face. (excessive force #1) Kid pushes cop away to avoid getting hit again. (reasonable use of force as self defense against illegal use of force by cop). Cop and cops fellow officers swarm kid to now arrest him for 1 jaywalking, 2 resisting arrest and 3 assaulting an officer. None of which were originally contemplated. None of this force is necessary b/c kid was never resisting arrest in the first place. As officers swarm and use excessive force to effectuate an unlawful arrest (possible exception for the original jaywalking charge) kid continues to resist arrest. Probably not a wise decision but not necessarily illegal under this hypo.

Do I think this is really what happened? I doubt it. And it is probable that the cops had more justification for what they did than is suggested in my hypo. However, the point remains, simply b/c the video shows the jaywalker actuvekt resisting arrest/excessive force does NOT mean that the arrest and use of force was justified.

Every time I see a story about someone arrested or even ticketed for jaywalking I must say that I have to laugh. Being a New Yorker I think we could balance the national deficit if NYPD started giving out tickets for jaywalking. I don’t think anyone here has received a ticket for that since the 1940′s.

Jaywalking here is not the exception to the rule – it is the rule we live by – it is how we cross streets daily. I don’t know any pedestrians who actually obey at a “Don’t Walk” sign. If there is even a fraction of a second break between oncoming cars we jump at the opportunity to cross the street.

Johnny Law: “I can remember a video of a Baltimore cop getting up in the face of a couple of skateboarders and being completely out of line. Not illegal but very bad form.”

Here’s the video JL is referring to: http://www.copblock.org/586/officer-dude-rivieri-cleared-of-excessive-fo...

In fact, the officer didn’t simply get “up in the faces of two skateboarders.” He actually threatened a teenager with physical violence (including a thinly veiled death threat) simply because the teen called him “dude.” As the officer explained, the teen didn’t “understand the meaning of respect.”

The cop also physically assaulted him without warning. During the assault, the cop grabbed the boy by the neck and forced him to the ground while shouting at him. When the boy tried to get back up, the officer shoved him to the ground screaming “Sit down, I’m not a dude!”

Nothing illegal though, I guess.
Dr. Q recently posted..Refused a c-section NJ Division of Youth and Family Services thinks you’re guilty of child neglect

“Nothing illegal though, I guess.”

Apparently not since the video title says he was cleared of excessive force charges.

Thanks for the link though.

Johnny, I’m loathe to answer you, because you’re not sincerely curious. You know what needs doing. You know that even if that person is weakly resisting, it’s okay to slam them onto the ground and give them a concussion. You’ve said so, yourself.

When you can tell me that it’s wrong to manhandle a suspect who is not fighting back to the point where they need medical attention, then I’ll think you’re seriously interested.

The link also says that the officer failed to issue a receipt to his victim and failed to file a police report. Apparently he was so focused on his psychotic control freak routine that he forgot to use enforcing the law as a pretense.
Dr. Q recently posted..Refused a c-section NJ Division of Youth and Family Services thinks you’re guilty of child neglect

“[Johnny Law] know[s] that even if that person is weakly resisting, it’s okay to slam them onto the ground and give them a concussion.”

And apparently Johnny Law knows that it’s okay to threaten a person with violence (including murder) simply because that person calls a police officer “dude.”
Dr. Q recently posted..Refused a c-section NJ Division of Youth and Family Services thinks you’re guilty of child neglect

JL #38,
“Apparently not since the video title says he was cleared of excessive force charges.”

Given that it was a police board we are left with “Quis custodiet ipsos custodes”. Numerous times we seen “no fault found” then the LEO is convicted of a crime for the same incident.

By the way, the political process is how the body politic deals with poor or unacceptable police procedures. Sorry, but that is real world, macro real world.

Given that I’ve seen the lowest police approval poll ever recorded in my lifetime (59%), the real world is approaching ass-biting time. Perhaps police procedures are suffering from moving baseline issues.

Okay. Im not going to be popular here but…
I have to agree with Johnny Law.
I do not like the beat down the kid got – but you can not resist when an officer places you under arrest. The time to fight is in court not the street.

bj, I’d never argue that you should resist arrest.

The question is, if there are thousands of professionals across the country dealing with kids just like that who have to restrain them and do it without brutality, isn’t it reasonable to expect police officers to have the same skill set?

The other question is, is it good police work to attempt to arrest or detain someone for jaywalking? There are many, many ways to deal with a 17 year old kid that don’t involve manhandling him.

bj #43,

Some states allow resisting, but you had better be damn right that the order was unlawful

However, the question is always whether the force used is excessive. If the only thing you can charge someone with is they resisted arrest (granted, police will lay as many other charges as possible on the resistor) then there is an underlying problem with procedures. The procedures are after all subordinate to the body politic’s reaction.

So many of these resisted arrest charges are dropped soon after when a video shows an “inordinate” amount of force used or no seeming reason for the beat down. We have all read report after report that “all charges were dropped” or “the prosecutor would not proceed because the video made a successful prosecution impossible” (gee, what does that mean?)

Fighting it in court is the system, but so is fighting it in the court of public opinion. And sometimes the latter is the fairer court, especially if the police report is a fabrication.

JL seems to believe that police procedures are like the customs of Britannus in G.B. Shaw’s “Caesar and Cleopatra”, the laws of the universe.

LJM #44,

The problem is that the police don’t have the kid’s medical records with them. They have to deal with what is directly in front of them.

However, when I read of a diabetic who suffers a beat down while wearing a medi-alert bracelet and who repeatedly says “I’m a diabetic”, I’d like to see the particular cops suffer a bloody public flogging and then have their certs pulled forever. (My teenage son is a type-1, and low episodes cause strange behavior. And, no, he can’t be held responsible like the boot-lickers would say after a beat down because maintaining a proper level is not an exact science.)

“The other question is, is it good police work to attempt to arrest or detain someone for jaywalking? There are many, many ways to deal with a 17 year old kid that don’t involve manhandling him.”

So if he has an arrest warrant and/or refuses to get out of the road, how would you deal with him?

Waiting on you LJM. You already said you have gotten physical with teens before so we are both apparently in agreement that sometimes you can’t reason with folks.

Ariel, you don’t need to know if a kid is a diabetic to know that it’s not necessary to knock him around in order to restrain him. The longer I worked with violent teens (and the bigger they seemed to get) the less force I used because we were always being trained in techniques designed to make it less likely that anyone was injured during a restraint. And different techniques were used depending on the situation.

That said, if a large teen or adult starts really fighting the police, then of course, one has to expect that there could be bruising and blood and pain during a restraint.

The teen in this video, like the suspects in the Denver videos, was smaller and less aggressive than the teens I dealt with on a regular basis. To suggest that the police handled any of those situations well is to have very, very low standards of police training.

Like I said, Johnny, as long as you refuse to admit that you were wrong to say there “was absolutely nothing wrong” with injuring suspects who didn’t fight back, there’s no point in conversing with you.