Pixiq

It seems to me that nowhere on that side of his belt would there be any place for the handle of the Taser gun. It would be blocked by the nightstick (there is something forward of it) or by his radio. Any further back and I would think it would be useless in a situation when it would be needed with some urgency.

Two thoughts…

1. Photo from activists. Who?
2. Aspect ratio of a poor quality photo is distorted.

In the digital age, seeing is not believing, especially anonymous images. The jury is still out.

JS, you are an idiot. Gone are the days where we could count on law enforcement to do the right thing. Cops nowadays see themselves as above the law.

What reason would a police officer have to pull out his pistol and shoot a prone person?

And the “You don’t know what cops go through” line is complete bullshit.

Have you been paying attention? Or are you blindly swallowing whatever your officers tell you? Cops don’t like being photographed or videotaped. Why? If they have nothing to hide, why the blatant hostility toward having their actions captured on film?

First off, what a tragedy. The officer could at best apologize if it were an honest-deadly-mistake. Furthermore, using a taser, a night-stick, or a gun in that situation was totally unnecessary; the officers clearly had this little guy subdued already, and of course there is going to be some movement from the suspect- there is life within him; he’s not a lifeless puppet/rag doll ready to be tossed around.
Those officers should have “got it” like those officer in that movie Corn Bread “got it.”

I hope someone kills this mother fucker.

i can assure you that there’s either a small maglight or a gerber/leatherman style knife in that leather pocket. my dad sells knives, holsters, and such to the police, and that’s a small, round container. it’s tall enough to warrant a flashlight, but it could be his sharpie holder, too.

But i sense you were being sarcastic anyhow.

anon: i hope someone doesn’t kill him

i hope he goes to jail. cops don’t have it easy in jail. he was only on the force two years, that’s not enough time for him to have any juice with any judges or prosecutors. he’ll go to gen pop.

My guess is that small container is for his mace/pepper spray.

Looks similar to the ones you’d see on the TV Cops.

I’m afraid the only way the family will receive any modicum is justice to sue the city of Oakland.

Undoubtedly they will receive a large settlement that, when weighed with not having Oscar, will seem insignificant.

Hard to fathom why I haven’t heard anything about this on the national news yet. Outrageous.

JS,

1. I’m not sure who the activists were but the photo – which I linked to – came from the East Bay Indy Media site.

2. Yes, the photo is distorted but the original photo was even more distorted. I tried to un-distort it as much as possible.

Despite the distortion, you can see there is no obvious evidence that he was carrying a Taser gun on his left side.

While you are right the jury is still out, this is just another piece of evidence that should be considered in the debates and discussions on this blog.

This just might be the “Gotcha!” moment.

I can’t imagine anyone thinking that this was a good time and place to kill someone for no reason.

Was he an idiot? Incompetent is more likely. In any case, he clearly was not ready to deal with the public.

These tasers are a real problem and have killed more than a few people. It seems the cops are very quick to rely upon them, where in the old days they would have just whacked someone on the back with a night stick.

And, yes, it seems as if the police have special rules for when they commit crimes. Some of these may be justifiable considering the demands of the job but many are just preferential treatment.

I really don’t understand why BART needs its own police force. Does Greyhound require such a thing? And I think Greyhound may pass through one or two more jurisdictions than BART does.

Thank god for the cameras!

Citizens should always have the right to photograph the actions of police, especially since it seems fine for the police to photograph citizens any time.

The watchers need to be watched! These guys do not play by the rules and the rules are written in their favor to begin with!

The Bay Area Rapid Transit system goes through four counties, so I can see why it would need its own police force because otherwise, it would get very confusing as to which jurisdiction handles crimes on the BART.

Al,

I completely agree with you on that. Everybody should carry around a camera. And everybody should know their legal rights when it comes to photographing police.

I think it’s more likely Mehserle actually meant to get his gun out and use threat of deadly force, in itself a violation, but maybe accidentally pulled the trigger, as he appears surprised after it goes off.

To Crazy Czzz, it’s possible he’s already apologised to the victim’s family. A long shot and I’m not trying to excuse this guys actions but… just saying.

To John: its not on national news because apparently there are “bigger and better” stories to broadcast. I mean, who really cares about this story anyway? The officer is at home with his family, the BART was not boycotted, and everyone, except for the deceased loved ones, has, more than likely, gotten back to their everyday routine.
The poor young man that was senselessly slaughter is one of the many victims of flawed-bigoted-ego-justice. Furthermore, what are we gonna do about it? What have we done about it? Nothing! except just talk-talk-talk-talk on-line in the comfort of our homes or what-have-you.
I am so glad I was not present during that incident because I would have gotten shot or tased shortly after that young man was shot because I’d of lost my mind and forgot those men with guns and badges were police officers.

This cop needs to be brought to justice and yeah it’d be nice if it was an eye for an eye in this situation but can’t be. I don’t want some rightfully angry and frustrated person going to prison for life in order to put this guy out.

Hopefully he will get his due from someone who is a lifer already. (On a side note, love that Dahmer got his due in prison)

Yes, it’s disgusting that even as a civilian, he has not been detained. He has displayed totally irrational and life threatening behavior and is now cooped up with his wife and newborn child. Their lives are at risk.

THIS NEW PICTURE: Just a thought that i don’t think anyone commented on: could it be that he goes against regulation and wears his tazer next to his gun? Possibly. And yeah yeah yeah, I know there wasn’t even reason to use a tazer – I agree.

And yes! That Nancy Grace disgrace should be all over this instead of that tired mystery of tot mom crap.

Not to mention there are two fairly big stories of cops wrongly shooting people in other parts of the US now. can’t understand why this isn’t a larger story.

And yes! It does seem like it’s always a white cop shooting a black guy but I have witnessed black on black racial profiling and abuse here in Chicago. And I’d be interested in seeing the numbers of white cops vs. black cops.

He could very well be wearing that Taser on his gun side, which would explain why he reached on that side in the first place.

Then the question is, is there an actual departmental regulation that insists officers where Taser guns and firearms on opposite sides?

If there is, then how long was Mehserle walking around in direct violation of this regulation?

And frankly, why would anybody want two guns on the same side?

But even if both the Taser and firearm were on the same side of his belt, is it that hard to tell the difference between the two of them?

A cop’s gun should be an extension of himself. He should be able to recognize the feel of that gun without even looking.

I own two guns, but I never carry them around, and lately, I rarely even go to the shooting range.

I own a Beretta .9 millimeter and Colt .45.

They are similar in size and they both have Pachmayr grips.

But all I have to do is wrap my fingers around one of the grips without looking to be able to tell you which gun this is.

So if he did pull out his gun instead of his taser and went as far as shooting it, then not only is he an incompetent officer who should never have been handed a gun, there are some serious lack of training issues within that department.

Either way, somebody has to be held accountable for the death of an unarmed man who was no obvious threat to the officer.

Carlos,

I have heard from an inside source that BART police have been wearing the TASER on the same side as their firearm. This has been something that they have been wanting to change, not sure why it wasn’t. Anyway the person told me that BART doesn’t want this to come out for obvious reasons. So I suspect that his TASER is on the opposite side from that shown in the picture. I suspect this will be what the defense relies on. I personally still don’t buy that he thought it was his TASER.

Mike,

I don’t know how there can be any accurate verification on what his intentions were.

He pulled his gun out, aimed and fired.

This is a basic training fundamental. If you pull out your gun, make sure that is what you want to do.

And if they were allowing these guys to walk around with a taser and a firearm on the same side, then that was just asking for trouble.

The whole thing is just very scary to know you may be shot at any time by a cop who doesn’t know his gun from his ass.

First, this is not an opinion on BART, the officer or anything other than the photo (personally, I think he will, and should, get 20 years at a minimum – his reaction was at the very least knee-jerk, unskilled and irresponsible).

That photo is bad. So bad as to be useless as evidence of anything. Not only can you not tell where the Taser is, or if there even is one, but you can’t even tell if that is a BART cop. The arm badge is too distorted. It could be the Dublin Metro Police for all I know. Lots of different police forces have similar uniforms and insignia. There is not even anything in the photo that tells you it was taken a BART station or train. That kind of makes this whole post useless and inflammatory.

Larkness,

I disagree. While the photo is not perfect, anybody who has seen the videos and his mugshot should have no trouble seeing that the cop in this photo is Mehserle and this was taken in the same location as the videos.

I don’t think the issue is whether or not this is Mehserle, I think the issue is whether or not he was carrying his Taser on his gun side because it doesn’t appear to be on his left side.

Perhaps if I were trying to introduce this into a court of law, it might not be admissible, but this is not a court of law.

This is an online forum.

However, the reason for this forum is for people like yourself to make observations and state opinions, so I do appreciate the comment.

And I’m wondering what anyone else has to say on this matter.

This is good, but I’m still looking for an image of his right side. My understanding is that if the Taser is in fact worn on his gun side that it has to be in a cross-draw holster, thus making it difficult to draw with the right hand.

“Anon: I hope someone kills this mother fucker.”

But wouldn’t it be nice to see him fully prosecuted by his own system, found guilty of murder, and then tossed into prison for a very long time? I think that this would do a lot into restoring some community confidence in law enforcement.

Besides, if he is put into gen pop, it’s a death sentence anyways after a couple of weeks of getting ass-raped. But most likely he’ll get shanked on the first day within the first hour within the first minute.

First, if anyone thinks this cop would have intentionally murder someone in full view of so many people, you are a foolish. In this day and age, every cop knows everywhere they go, they are being watched and with even children walking around with phones that record, the police know they arte being recorded. It is more likely a case of bad training and or a horrible tactics by trhe police officer. I find it amusing that so many of you are calling for his death, yet you demand a fair day in court for everyone else. Also, the comment about police being out of control is laughable. I guess I am a bit older then most on this post and can tell you that the police now a days is a lot more sensitive to our rights and less likely to be abusive then what I gre up with. We just live in a time, where if a cop screws up, we hold them to it and not swept under the rug like it used to be. Another comment about Black police officers, a stat I found interesting is that a Black police officer is 5 times more likely to violate a Black persons right then a White police officer. Lastly, I think we currently live in a society that demands so much of our law enforcement, but despise them for it. Nobody likes being told they were wrong or told to stop doing something.

Fenres,

If you’re going to quote an official stat, then provide a link because otherwise, it is just hearsay.

I find it interesting how everybody seems to know exactly what was going through that cop’s head when he shot the suspect.

You’re saying he surely could not have wanted to shoot him because he was in a public venue.

Well his actions speak for itself.

That is why I haven’t even approached the race card in all my articles because even though he was white and the suspect black, I really have no evidence that tells me he killed him because he was racist.

The only evidence I have is what I saw on that video. A cop who has a subject restrained yet pulls a gun out, takes careful aim and pulls the trigger.

I don’t know what he was thinking at the time, as you apparently do, but I do know he shot a man in cold blood.

And just because cops are not as abusive as they were in your day doesn’t mean we have to accept police abuse today.

Obviously, you haven’t had your rights violated by cops in these modern times but it happens every single day of the week.

A cop has the authority to destroy your life and get away with it. Yet many people think we should turn a blind eye towards that because they wear a badge.

Well with that badge comes responsibility.

You’re damn right that we demand “so much of our law enforcement”.

We demand that our law enforcement enforce the actual laws and not make up their own laws.

We demand that our law enforcement treat us with respect rather than bark at us like dogs as so many of them do.

And we demand our law enforcement to not be criminals.

Is that too much to ask? Apparently it is.

The officer has been arrested.

Well you Carlos obviously know what was going through his mind at the time. And the absolute rediculous statement “Took careful aim” shows your prejudice towards the police is obvious. You say I have not had my rights violated by the police lately, you know my situation then? The differance between people like you and me is I accepted my responcibility for the things I have done wrong and don’t characterize “All this, All that” when refering to any group”. I once had two police officers pull guns on me because I matched a bank robbers description, I guess it made sense to mea dn I didn’t assume it was profiling, but maybe you are right, they are out to get us!!!!! I at no time said the police officer was not guilty of anything, I just said what should be obvious to anyone, that no police officer is going to murder a guy for simple resistance in front of so many witnesses. If you think so, you are an idiot. Lastly, you sit there and condem all police, why don’t you grow a set and become one then see how easy it is for them. And to his arrest, it seems justifed to me too, but I guess my fault is, I don’t blame all of them for one’s actions. I mean after all Carlos, I live in a 80% Spanish neighborhood and I caught an Hispanic male breaking into my car, should I blame all Spanish people for it CARLOS?

Fenres,
You say you “take responsibility for the things you’ve done wrong…” Okay, well, is it wrong to go safely faster than the speed limit? or to sell cocaine to an adult consumer? or to walk around the neighborhood where one lives naked on a hot summer night? or to be reluctant to being detained by an officer for being involved in a mutual combative circumstance?
If these scenarios are wrong, then by whoms standard? and whose to say that that standard should have primacy over those who deviate from such standards? Who decides what is right or wrong?.. What gives a man the right to take another mans life or incapacitate a man via taser for not yeilding himself?
If I am being unjustifiably/mistakenly targeted by a police officer or anyone for that matter, don’t I have the right to defend myself by any means necessary? And when I do yield but I am being mistreated by having my face flagrantly pressed to the concrete and heavy knees in my back, do I not have the right to squirm in discomfort?

Whether it was an accident or not, fact is, the officer purposely pulled a weapon, no matter what he thought it was, pointed the weapon at his preferred target and discharged that weapon purposely.
Police officers and/or U.S Military soldiers do not engage the trigger on their weapons- the trigger*finger is pointed parallel atop the area where trigger is located- unless the intent is to shot. Also, there are no warning shots, these people in these professions shot to kill.
On the contrary, everybody makes mistakes, if this officer is spared for his mistake then so should everyone else. I’m sure some people who planned their murders look back on it and realize they made a mistake… spare them too if officer Mehserle is spared.

Fenres,

One of the first thing anybody learns when they are being trained on how to use guns is to not point them at anybody unless they fully intend to use them.

Mehserle aimed directly at the suspect’s back and fired.

You like to claim it was an accident but the actions speaks for themselves. The thoughts in his head don’t say anything. In fact, he hasn’t said anything since the shooting so anything you or anybody else has said is just pure speculation.

And the difference between me and you is that I don’t accept it when I get harassed for something I did not do. I don’t accept it when I get arrested and have false charges conjured against me.

And you are the one generalizing. I condemn police officers who break the law. Unlike many people who are always searching for excuses as to why they broke the law.

And then you say why don’t I “grow a pair” and become a cop? Well, it’s obvious you are related to a cop somehow because that is just pure macho bullshit talk that usually comes from someone juvenile, not from someone with so much worldly experience as you claim to have. Really, the only way I can prove to you I’m a man is to become a cop? Sure.

You may have the years but you don’t have the wisdom or the maturity.

I agree with Crazy Czzz and Carlos. Fenres, it is obvious to me that you are associated with the police in some fashion, and therefore are biased in favor of LEOs regardless of the circumstances. Now, me personally, I’m not going to say that the officer intentionally meant to kill Oscar, but I will say as a minimum that he was “criminally negligent” which would be classified as “voluntary manslaughter”. It’s still murder anyway you look at it. We know that justification is completely off the table. That leaves only two possibilities:

1. He meant to draw his service weapon and cover Oscar, but he had his finger on the trigger and there was an “accidental discharge” (maybe believable).

2. He meant to draw his Taser (assuming he had one to begin with), but drew his service weapon instead and fired the fatal shot (not believable at all).

But now when you throw in the fact that the officer refused to cooperate with internal affairs and then tried to make a run for it, “2nd degree murder” is looking more and more like the right call to make in this circumstances.

Part of me hopes that you are right about one thing that, “It is more likely a case of bad training and or horrible tactics by the police officer.” Only because the only way that Grant’s family will ever win the lawsuit against the city is for their attorney to prove beyond a reasonable doubt that the city was negligent in the officer’s training. I hate to say it, but that’s probably going to be difficult to prove. Regardless, I still hope they win their case though.

Well I would like to say that any Police Officer is well trained in regards to weapons handling. This includes tasers, batons, stun guns, mace etc…
A criminal will get convicted of first degree muder in a heart beat. No matter if he was defending himself from another criminal and/or in fear of his life. State and Federal Prosecuters would eat him alive. Unfortunately the Police Officers are part of the City/County/State/Federal Government. The laws are written to defend them and for the to abuse private citizens. This happens everyday. If there were no videos of this incident.. i think we all know what the results would be.

The usual statements: I feared for my life, I saw him reaching for a weapon, He kicked me and made an aggressive move towards me. In know where in any of the reports would it state that the SUSPECT was handcuffed and/or face down on the floor.

Again you two seem to think you know what was going through his mind at the time. You want to call me juvenile, but you are the ones who rushed to judegement and demanded his execution. It is obvious to me, you are all cop haters and there is nothing I can do or say to change that. It amuses the heck out of me that those who protest authority the most usually falls into one of two catagories, either they are themselves criminals and get arrested by the big bad cops or they are the first ones to call the police when they are confronted with something scary. There is nothing any of you who have no law enforcement experience can say to me that will make me think your opinons mean anything except hate filled speech. And an above blogger said he fled the state and quit to avoid internal affairs? Are you joking, by quiting, he gave up certain protections he had He also told the police where he was going and turned himself in when called by the D.A and told he had a warrant. You fools keep spouting off stuff you don’t know anything about or keep mis-speaking on purpose. You also say any criminal would be convicted on first degree murder, do you even know the elements to first degree murder?

Fenres,

With all due respect, you are talking out of your ass. Show me one comment where I called for the cop’s execution. Just one comment.

I am neither a criminal, which is why I started this blog because I was accused of being a criminal, nor am I one to rush and call the cops whenever something “scary” is happening, whatever that means.

And you really believe that by quitting this cop “gave up certain protections”? Right now, he is protected by the Fifth Amendment.

As a cop, he would have to give a statement under departmental policies.

And did he really tell police where he was going? Is that why they tracked him down by using “investigative leads”?

Fenres, if you really want to have a serious discussion, then leave your opinions out of it. Stick to the facts.

fenres,
You jackass. You forgot one more category. How about a victim of a cop? If Oscar has siblings, do you think they would be big fans of cops? I like to think HELL NO.

He did quit to avoid being interrogated by I.A.
He did flee without telling the police where he was going. Why the hell do you think they issued a fugitive warrant for his arrest dumbass?

In response to, Fenres’s latest comment: I was on the road to becoming a Police Officer at one point in my life. Police Officer work is honorable and heroic (at least it is suppose to be); I believe this with a passion, but what do you get when you give a badge, a gun, and authority to a cranky-smug-trigger*happy-bigot? You get Officers like Mehserle.
I don’t hate all police officers, but alot of individuals who are officers do not uphold what it truely means to “serve and protect the innocent.”
Men like Carlos and Two Socks do not speak out in hate for all police officers but they’re (we’re) fed up with criminals and psycho’s that are protected by the badge ruining and terminating lives.

Okay all of you cops/experts out there, how plausible is it that Mehserle could have had a temporary lapse of memory and forgot to keep his finger off of the trigger until he was ready to make the decision to shoot?

I just don’t get all this speculation about a Taser, whether or not he was carrying one.

Look at this: if I, as a regular citizen, with no weapons training, leave the house tonight fully decked out for combat, with a pistol on one side of me and a Taser on the other, and for whatever reason a buddy and I end up pinning a guy down and I shoot him in the back, then I refuse to make a statment to the police, who’s going to jump up and claim I thought I was using a Taser?

Two things to point out. The safety on a Taser is very different from the safety on a Sig Sauer 40 cal. That alone would tip you off without looking.

Second, you are trained never to fire a Taser when other officers are touching the subject as you can then Tase them by conduction.

The Chief states that he was wearing a Taser on his non gun side( left), yet the video shows him drawing from his Right side. ( Watch the arm patch on his Left side to see the movement of his upper arm. This indicates that he never reached back to his side to draw the weapon from the Left)

“Second, you are trained never to fire a Taser when other officers are touching the subject as you can then Tase them by conduction. ”

Is that really true? Electricity will take the least path of resistance which would be the shortest distance between the two darts. I’ve seen officers handling a suspect that is currently being tased.

I firmly believe he meant to draw his side arm and not his taser. This officer knows like all the others that he and they are above the law and can kill without much consequences. I guess he didn’t realize the whole thing was being captured on cellphone cameras.

I want to wait for the trail to see what happens to Mehserle. I’m sure it will be an interesting trail and hope it’s on Court TV because it will be interesting to watch.

While the news and video of the shooting doesn’t look good for Mehserle he is entitled to the presumption of innocence until proven guilty beyond a reasonable doubt before the trier of fact or he excepts a plea and pleads guilty.

I just feel really sorry for Oscar Grant’s parents and family. What sad set of circumstances to loose a loved on under. Because of this I truely hope the justice system works properly in this case and all the facts become known to all.

I also have to report that the video of the shooting did appear on NY TV news. It’s how I found out about it.

You people are idiots. Look, if it was an accident he DOESNT EVEN NEED TO HAVE A TASER ON HIM. He doesn’t need to even have a reason to taser him. Isn’t it EVEN POSSIBLE that in a tense situation he grabbed something he thought was his taser (he was given one remember), and shot? Isn’t it even POSSIBLE!?

The above picture doesn’t prove one way or the other whether he was carrying a Taser or not. His left arm blocks your view. KTVU carries a video of the aftermath. In it you can see an officer carrying a yellow taser on his weak side in a forward canted cross-draw fashion. I carry the same way.

I’ve never thought the officer intentionally meant to shoot the subject. His actions before and after the event tell me this. Personally, I just think he’s a screw up that is a liability to everyone around him. He got confused during the scuffle and that ended up costing someone dearly. Liable? Yep. Intentional? I don’t think so.

I think he should get convicted of murder, what a racist act you all those white cops around who should be convicted too, some white people can be soo EVIL when it comes to black people and things of that nature ask a black guy about the trail and your stupid ask a white guy and your right