Pixiq

Man it’s getting dangerous for us to cross that border. You know we’re all terrorrists & drug dealers up here eh?
http://www.thestar.com/news/ontario/article/738143–u-s-border-guards-a...

Tall trees, short ropes

You don’t even have to be entering the country, I got harassed just returning to California. There is a lane for Californians returning from Reno but I took the other lane because I was returning from SLC. That pissed off the drunken border guard. He repeatedly tried to provoke a fight as he searched my car. The other border guards were telling him not to, all the while ready to take us down if I took the bait. A teensy bit of authority, a badge, a gun, alcohol and a underdeveloped psyche always ends in problems like these. Your blog is full of examples.

Whotta bunch of gestapo shit.

American immigration personel at airports has impoved over the last decade in my experience – they are more courteous and friendly. But people on the land crossings are still back in the last millenium. This story does not surprise me in the least. The guy who looked at my passport the last time I drove from Canada to the USA (BC->WA) was an arrogant and harmless cunt and this has been the case every time I have used that crossing (3 times).

Arrogant and charmless, that is.

e.g. Instead of asking me for my immigration form he slapped his hand on the table and then did the ‘gimme’ jesture. What a wanker!

Is this even real?? This recording could have been made anywhere. The guy who posted it doesn’t even know where it came from. However, I do like his rant in the description section.

Looking at his other youtube posts, he’s also a 9/11 truther. So he’s obviously not insane or anything….

The TSA is going to start adding people to a database of names of anyone who makes an airport screener ‘feel threatened’ – which could simply mean you are having a bad day and make a snippy remark to the screener.

http://www.usatoday.com/travel/flights/2010-05-24-TSA-threatening-fliers...

So now simply not being a happy person, perhaps because you’ve slept in the terminal for the past 12 hours because your flight was canceled or maybe you’re traveling to a funeral, is reason enough to be tracked by the gubmit.

Ain’t that lovely?

I read about this story a couple weeks ago on a major news site, but cant remember which one. At the time they did not have the audio, but talked about it. I understand this audio was recorded by the guy because he had been given a hard time before.

I need to correct one thing SHAH OF IRAN my bad

rance maybe if you took a minute to read my ealier post you wouldn’t have asked me such a half ass question, first rance whether you knew it since 9/11 and the politics involved things at the boarder crossing has changed this country has changed, in the way they treat people, and a lot of this is fueled by a notion that a terrorist would be dumb enough to bring a WMD to a boarder crossing, that’s like an illegal immigrant trying to get in through boarder crossing that’s a foolish way of doing it, so thats how politics got brought up maybe you need to take your own advice maybe you need a joint or lithium your showing at least one symptom poor judgement

Oh I see, when somebidy you support ssys something racist you just say it was rhetorical and ignore it.

LMAO! You’re unbelievable! There was NOTHING racist about his comment at all… What a weak, and misplaced, attempt at playing the race card.

Pathetic dude… Shameless and pathetic…

I suspect I’m considerably better educated than you and PLEASE don’t try to lecture me about the events during the cold war, I lived through that era. I’m first to admit that the US has made its fair share of mistakes on this planet, what I’m not prepared to do is to sit by and let garbage like “…the government for the most part created the terriost crap…” just float by without taking a shot. That’s pure out and out nonsense. Islamic terrorism needs nothing more than another culture, that does not follow the precepts of the Koran, to break out and go beserko. WE DID NOT CREATE ISLAMIC TERRORISM!!! It is part and parcel to the whole Islamic experience. And BTW, I’m the first to admit that GWB probably WANTED to believe the CIA junk intelligence about WMDs in Iraq. Finally, I’m entitled to my OPINIONS just like anybody else here, you needn’t act as though I’ve spit on the Virgin Mary for expressing them.

Your considerably more educated than me? no your very immature and you assume far too much, you don’t even know me, your providing evidence to everyone reading your opinions that your quite foolish , you do need a lecture so you stop embarrassing yourself, at any rate this is an website for sharing thoughts not trading insults, so get your parting insults and be gone I’m done hearing from you sir…..

Rance, you’re so racist that you don’t know that you’re being a racist, so stop being one.

Note: That was meant as a joke, as we need a little humor in this comment section.

first off I thought MAYBE I SHOULDN”T POST THIS because I said that I was done, so forgive me but that rant you went on about Islamic terrorist was very interesting I’m not a Muslin I don’t even know one, I’ve never even touched the Koran but I had to LOL that your so well-versed on the subject but failed to mention that one of the worst acts of terrorism committed on this country was carried out by two CHRISTIAN FUNDAMENTIST remember these two TIMOTHY McVEIGHT, TERRY NICHOLS? I know you dislike facts because you hate to be lectured, but when you go on spewing opinions about other hateful acts of terrorism you need to understand , we have home grown terrorist right here in this country carried out by two WASP

I must be… Nah, I hate everyone equally.
Rance´s last blog ..BinaryGravy: RT @marklevinshow: Obama has authority to lead the oil spill recovery but he won’t b/c he doesn’t know what to do… http://bit.ly/b7ayfz

You’ve lived on a border? So? I’ve lived on a border too. I’ve had my vehicle completely taken apart. But the officers at that time didn’t expect me to kiss their ass. And I don’t care if they are particularly friendly to me. Not that kissing ass is a sign of friendliness. The only thing which is important is that they do their job. You know, be professional. Fact is, border officials are the most corrupt people on this planet. The illegal shit that crosses borders couldn’t cross without them. But then again if all the border agents are as stupid as these guys that they are going to take several hours out of their day and many thousands of dollars out of the system to fuck with innocent people like this, well, you don’t have border security do you? They do not stop several terrorists a day with these “methods”. “I’m going shopping.” Wow what a dick! How suspicious! Obviously a terrorism suspect. Yeah I’m sure the Israelis have time to let some emotionally stunted freak’s egos dictate who should be stopped at a border. How effective. You’re slave and will never understand that one aspect of freedom is not having to kiss someone’s ass. I always wonder about you obedient drones who unquestioningly submit to any humiliation in order to just get along in life. But hey, I don’t like to kiss a stranger’s ass so it is a bit difficult to understand your point of view. And you probably still don’t see what snarky dicks these “officers” are. Great attitude you got there: hey everybody everywhere get down and keep your tail between your legs. Get ready Americans, this is the true nature of your freedom. Snarky bureaucrats answerable to no one.

I live in Niagara Falls, NY, which is where this couple was going, so I’m in a good position to weigh in on this incident. Here’s my assessment:

1. The first customs agent was a bit out of line, but the Canadian guy was unnecessarily snarky.

2. The second customs guy was polite and to the point until the latter part of the recording (I’ll get to that in a moment), but the Canadian dude was still snarky and arrogant, even more so with him.

3. Customs got out of hand when they thought that the guy had threatened them, which he did not, as was proven by the recording.

To sum this up, both US Customs and the Canadian guy were in the wrong, but the Canadian couple probably would have been on their way in 15 minutes or less if the guy hadn’t been a dick.

Having lived in a border city my entire life, and having crossed back and forth at least a couple hundred times, I can tell you that even if you don’t mouth off to Customs, they have little room for humor or deviations in answers. It’s just part of their job. It doesn’t matter if you’ve had a bad day. You can’t expect to get away without being asked to go to the Customs station for a few questions if you’re giving the officers an attitude. That’s a no-brainer for anyone who’s crossed the border at least a few times.

With all of that said, I’ve never had trouble with US Customs. Whenever I’ve had trouble, it’s always been with Canadian Customs, whose officers, and least in the Niagara Region, seem to have an inferiority complex.

Even if this is real, it is edited. And not just trivially. There is a pretty obvious edit between where he says “what are you going to do, shoot me” and where they are accusing him of threatening them. What was edited out I wonder?

They can ask all the detailed questions they want. My objection is primarily that it is insane and counterproductive to arrest someone who doesn’t need arresting. Suppose they held this guy for a few hours even, and then kicked him loose. Still mighta made youtube, would have been a LOT less devastating. Same with Peter Watts, if they had not pressed charges, me and a lot of Americans who are going to hate our country for doing this crap would never have heard of it. In the case of Watts, they maced him, punched him, dropped him off on foot without his stuff in a storm to walk home. Why did they need to follow through by prosecuting him for contempt-of-cop?

But ultimately, this video is NOT verified. It is way too compact. You have border agents giving explanations for what they are doing. You have nearly perfect audio, not like ANY covert recording I have ever heard before. You have an almost perfect story line. There should be 50 border crossing recordings that aren’t nearly this compelling for every one that is this good.

I say don’t be pulled in by garbage. There is LOTS of pure real stuff on this blog and other places. Let’s make this one wait until somebody gives something even in the ball park of credibility to it. Even a STORY about what happened next would be good.

This is just a late add for the facts: neither McVeigh nor Nichols were Christian Fundies. Sorry, but they weren’t. They had left that long before the OK bombing, long, long before. In fact, McVeigh ranted about how much he hated Christianity.

It is one on of the most tedious, incorrect claims about them.

And, no, I’m not a Christian

and least = at least

make that “For those returning from Tahoe”

This.

And a follow-on comment: The questions the first agent was asking are what’s known as a “Pseudo-Random Personal Interview.” It’s one of the most effect tools for quickly assessing a potential threat. You ask increasing detailed personal questions that are simply impossible to prepare for ahead of time. Any hesitation equals a ‘hit’, and you get additional attention.

This technique should be familiar to anyone that’s ever traveled Israeli Air Lines. Asked why their security is so much more effective than ours, they reply, “Because in the US you look for the bombs. In Israel, we look for the bombers.”

Mr. Snarky needs to learn when to STFU.

Finally, on a personal note, I was once crossing the border with my father when the agent asked him where he was born. He quickly gave the name of the town he was currently living in, then corrected himself. Needless to say, we all got interviewed. But since we knew when to STFU, we were on our way 10 minutes later.

Nice way to push blame onto the victim there, chief. As if anyone who should dare laugh at or react to the asinine security theater going on here (“Which store?” “Which STORE? I DON’T KNOW!”) really ought to walk away having learned some kind of “lesson” other than “shut your damned mouth, roll over and take what’s Federally coming to you”. *spit*
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Carlos, first of all, immigration and border control is nothing at all like policing inside America. Being admitted to this country is a privilege, not a right. Even if you are a US citizen, most constitutional rights (such as freedom from unreasonable search and seizure) are considerably weakened if they are present at all. For example, with all due respect to the name of your excellent site, photography and other recording is probably illegal before you are admitted into the country.

Secondly, the second guard went off the tracks when he tried to explain himself, to discuss what he was doing. He tried to sound reasonable and put forward justifications for his questions when in reality he had very little latitude of action. If he had simply and clearly stated what was going to happen, the visiting idiot would have understood his situation much earlier. The guard should have stated something like: “I will now ask you a few questions. Depending on your answers, I will take one of three courses of action: admit you into the country, send you back to Canada, or retain you on suspicion of terrorism, drug running, smuggling or another crime. I may also put you on a watch list for future reference. So please take your time before answering.”

BTW, I have seen people turned back on the US-Canada border. When the guards on the other side see a car come back on the U-turn lane they are ready to ask their own exhaustive set of questions. You are in no-man’s land when you are between the two border posts.

Exactly, Freddy Hill.

You hit the nail on the head.

Just as it’s illegal to lie to a federal officer, it’s a whole different game when you enter into this country, especially as a foreigner with no legal right to be admitted.

I have been to about 65 countries and travel 275-300 days per year. I have never had a bad experience with US Customs, though I literally go through the extra page passports every 3-6 years. I’ve been treated less than friendly and toughly at times, but never unprofessionally. I cannot say the same in about every other country I’ve traveled to.

Mike S

And this is why more people need the Eye-Fi like technology but perhaps instead of WiFi, a cellular system linked to a more in-depth account such that any recordings are automatically posted to a user’s website on maybe an hourly or something basis (with all recordings being stored at all times, just broken down such that you don’t have to scroll through hours and hours of nothing to get the good stuff.) If I was a tad richer, and more skilled, I’d build one ASAP. If you’re damned, then you might as well go all in and maybe embarrass the government while you’re at it.

I also travel quite a lot, but not as much as you. I agree with you that I have never had an unprofessional run-in with US Customs.

Shawn wrote: “….the Canadian couple probably would have been on their way in 15 minutes or less if the guy hadn’t been a dick.”

In a free society you have the right to be a dick. The point is here, there’s the LAW and then there’s egos. When the guy with the gun, badge and uniform gets his ego massaged a bit then he has the right to make people’s lives miserable. You or I cannot do that. For the unitiated, that’s called a crock of shit.

While I think some of the first customs officer’s questions were absolutely ridiculous, and the Canadian man was a little snarky, I don’t see any reason for it to have gotten to the point where the couple was arrested. That blame, I place on the border officials.

Was there a need for a 2nd interview? Maybe, but there were obviously officers there that were being total asshats as well. It is only natural for the couple to feel flabbergasted/ frustrated/ violated/angry, when they are being patronized and treated like criminals. The tape clearly proves that there weren’t any threats made against the border officers. The border patrol supervisor should pull out the lawbook and read the definition of assault again as well.

Assault – a threat or attempt to inflict offensive physical contact or bodily harm on a person (as by lifting a fist in a threatening manner) that puts the person in immediate danger of or in apprehension of such harm or contact.

Since this is an audio only recording, there is no way to determine if the man raised a fist to the officer, though I highly doubt it.

Pulling away from an officer is NOT assault. Resisting arrest, yes, though no violent or threatening actions were made that we know of. The officer made that clear when he said “You pulled your arm away from the officer. That’s assault”. Well I hate to break it to you Mr. Fife, but no it isn’t. Not according to Merriam Webster anyway.
Rance´s last blog ..BinaryGravy: RT @marklevinshow: Obama has authority to lead the oil spill recovery but he won’t b/c he doesn’t know what to do… http://bit.ly/b7ayfz

.. all too typical behavior by US border goons. As mentioned, most of the ‘rights’ a person might expect don’t apply when at a border crossing.
They delight in trying to trip you up with weird questions then compare stories with each other when on break.

They can dismantle your vehicle and leave you to reassemble/move it at your own expense. They have another trick where they make you park your car in a enclosed inspection shed and you have to sit in the office area where you can’t see what they’re doing to/with your car. It’s not that hard for agent A to drop a couple marijuana seeds under the front seat, then encourage agent B to look carefully under that seat. They now have an excuse to seize your car. Agent B can then testify ‘truthfully’ that he did indeed find contraband that allowed seizure of the car.

I take it through this response that you don’t leave the US that often.

I can tell you right now that this scenario is a fantasy. Maybe it might’ve happened down at the southern border, but not up here. Also, as I said before, Canadian Customs is worse.

Not really. The guy just needs to learn to answer only what’s asked, and without nearly as much attitude as was on display in that recording.

Pity there isn’t a clip of it on YouTube, Jello Biafra did a great performance as a US border agent harassing the couple transporting their dead buddy’s body to New Orleans from Canada, in Highway 61.

I disagree with the person who said, “in a free society you have the right to be a dick.”

Yes – you can be a dick to your friends, your boss, your wife, whoever. You might lose your friends, job and wife if that’s how you act, but it is your right.

However, when dealing with law enforcement, you don’t have that right. Their job is to (in this case) protect our borders, and it’s a very important job, as we’ve seen with recent terrorist threats. They don’t have time or energy to be nice to people who decide they have the right to be “dicks,” and I’m fully in favor of someone who mouths off to them getting hauled off to the cooler for an hour or two.

That’s not the point.

Attitude SCHMATTITUDE! Why don’t you go find yourself a police officer and ask him if he’d be kind enough to drop his pants so you can smooch his backside?!! This obsequious groveling at the feet of authority makes me want to PUKE!! Why are the cops the only ones (besides judges) who are ENTITLED to social niceties? Damn, that kind of talk makes my skin crawl.

See my post above.

Rusty,

Point taken. However, I’m with those who say people should just learn how to STFU in such situations. It would make life easier for everyone.

Shawn wrote: “Also, as I said before, Canadian Customs is worse.”

I’ve crossed the border in Detroit at least a hundred times and my experience has been the opposite.

I took issue with that statement, as well.

Hey look, I don’t have a problem being polite to an officer, I’m not out to make anybody’s job difficult. What really sets my blood to boiling is the attitude, on the part of SOME officers that I’m the ant and they are the boot. A minority of them seem to want to establish, with the first words out of their mouths, that my roll is to be an obsequious turd and if I don’t just roll over and show my belly right away then its time to slap on the cuffs (tightly). It’s the “I’m the alpha male and you’d better understand that” BS that makes me wake up in the middle of the night grinding my teeth.

Rusty, I don’t think that you get it. These guys need to be professional, but they don’t have any duty to be nice. The situation could have been handled better by both sides, but it deteriorated to such a bad extent because the Canadian guy chose to be a jerk, though I do think that the Customs agents at the Lewiston-Queenston Bridge need to get their hearing checked.

Wait… a state “border guard?” You submitted to a *search of your car* when crossing a *state* border? No probable cause?

I thought the Constitution permitted free-flow over *state* borders… am I missing something here?

I’ve never crossed in that area, so I can’t speak to the attitude of either US or Canadian Customs on that part of the border.

By the way, here’s a link that you may want to read. I’d like to note that I don’t agree with it.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Border_search_exception